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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 3853511 times)

Caldfir

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #6720 on: June 07, 2013, 02:39:58 am »

I wouldn't say large forts are neglected, so much as Toady hasn't come up with a solution to the problem of large fort management yet.  In the latest DFTalk he mentioned that there are two approaches - in one approach the dwarves are able to do more for themselves (some sort of system that auto-assigns labors or something) (dfhack has an autolabor plugin that tries to do this), and the other is better micro-management tools for the player (like dwarftherapist etc.).  I believe the feeling expressed in DFTalk by Toady was that both solutions to the problem have merit, but he's leaning toward the former. 
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WillowLuman

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #6721 on: June 07, 2013, 04:03:36 am »

And so, large forts don't need to be made purposefully more unwieldly or harder to manage. Fake difficulty does not suit DF well.
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Knight Otu

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #6722 on: June 07, 2013, 04:26:30 am »

If I am reading the implications of the dev log correctly, are we looking at a replacement of the omniscient dwarven hivemind with something that tracks jobs based on knowledge? If so I fear we will be stuck with a broken fortress mode for quite a long time after the release as the new systems are inplemented/bugtested.
I do not see where you're getting that implication. The only knowledge thing in the devlog is that dwarves no longer knew how to do things.
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LordBaal

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #6723 on: June 07, 2013, 06:45:52 am »

I still think that reaching a point in which your fortress starts true civilian activity and you only have to mark it's space (build houses here, workshops here, market here every Tuesday and so on would be really fun.
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I'm curious as to how a tank would evolve. Would it climb out of the primordial ooze wiggling it's track-nubs, feeding on smaller jeeps before crawling onto the shore having evolved proper treds?
My ship exploded midflight, but all the shrapnel totally landed on Alpha Centauri before anyone else did.  Bow before me world leaders!

Inarius

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #6724 on: June 07, 2013, 06:52:23 am »

I never goes to more than 80 dwarves. Beyond that, Dwarven Darwin does his job.
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King Mir

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #6725 on: June 07, 2013, 07:02:15 am »

I wouldn't say large forts are neglected, so much as Toady hasn't come up with a solution to the problem of large fort management yet.  In the latest DFTalk he mentioned that there are two approaches - in one approach the dwarves are able to do more for themselves (some sort of system that auto-assigns labors or something) (dfhack has an autolabor plugin that tries to do this), and the other is better micro-management tools for the player (like dwarftherapist etc.).  I believe the feeling expressed in DFTalk by Toady was that both solutions to the problem have merit, but he's leaning toward the former.
I would say the reason he hasn't come up with a solution has to do with the same problem of not play testing the late game.

Sizik

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #6726 on: June 07, 2013, 08:21:53 am »

I think both approaches would fit well in the game. You can have your dwarves take care of themselves, while simultaneously excessively micromanaging the magma-spewing robot megaproject you're working on.

Perhaps a Dwarf Therapist-style interface with an "auto-labor" setting for individual dwarves/jobs/workshops? For example, set crafting to auto, and any dwarf who is set to auto will have the ability to make crafts at an auto-set workshop, if they choose to do so (dependent on individual preferences).
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LordBaal

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #6727 on: June 07, 2013, 08:44:10 am »

In that approach you could have the best of both worlds. Perhaps craft inclined dwarves would make crafts on their free time or as an occupation, filling your deposits in time. But if the need arises you could still order X amount of crafts from X dwarfs or from "professional" craft dwarfs only, something you can already make.

But honestly, in this regard I think that a better manager would suffice. Better as in being able to tell him to "maintain booze stockpile at this levels" or "always have X logs in the deposit". Then the manager would either send the jobs, and if the jobs are not available (i.e. no trees left in the map), then the manager could even make suggestions on the trade agreement screen. If we go a tad further down the road, we could even let the manager auto manage the entire trade agreement if you choose to.
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I'm curious as to how a tank would evolve. Would it climb out of the primordial ooze wiggling it's track-nubs, feeding on smaller jeeps before crawling onto the shore having evolved proper treds?
My ship exploded midflight, but all the shrapnel totally landed on Alpha Centauri before anyone else did.  Bow before me world leaders!

azraeldestiny

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #6728 on: June 07, 2013, 08:44:42 am »

In my view I would work even more playability of the game (for the player to have many more hours of play). I put a list of things from my point of view could greatly enhance the game (the only problem is that some of these things give programmers a lot of work):

-Foreign Trade: had thought that the creation of a profession separate from the broker to take care of forwarding go out shopping and to send them to the Allies (elves, humans, dwarves) and according to the level of that dwarf had success or not trade or be attacked by other enemies (the level represents the percentage of success for the dwarfs llegen traded and safe to the fortress after his long journey)

-Fix the problem diplomats. (Each year comes to my strength the human diplomat to talk but not do anything but suck up to my dwarf duchy)

I would have thought that diplomats could put the following:
1st. Dealing with them reinforcements in sieges (the same as a lot of goblins come to haunt, it would be quite nice to the other races help defend your fortress if you have friends with them)
2nd. Foreign trade with them (to trade with them creating a merchant that animal go outside you can assign)
3rd. Power also create ourselves a diplomat to be sent to the cities of the other races to parley with them.
4th. Diplomats also send them to declare war (eg the elves) or solve a war.

-Slavery. Also had thought that they could give the goblins once caught the option of using them as servants or slaves. For them:
1st. Having a dwarf slave to be responsible (like the animal trainer) to "tame" the goblins
2nd. The goblins domesticated tasks assigned to the dwarves (for example if I have a dwarf miner goblin dwarf will be assigned to that which is devoted to snack on while the dwarf has places to lounge)
3rd. This will facilitate the happiness of the dwarves since the work they would do the slaves and they be devoted to more important things like combing his beard

-New settlements. Also at certain level could create an option (after working much strength) the option to expand into other territory map mundi.
For example, that at a certain level of your strength displays a message that offers the opportunity to bring another strength and power dwarfs send your own strength to strength for so can conquer the entire map.

-Conquest. Power attack the territories of the other races (as catapults and ballistae honestly do not see utility to defend) and conquer and esclavisarlos or send reinforcements to fight some enemies

-Functions of nobility. Send more functions to the nobles because I have "a duchy" and all you do is spend the day sitting in his giant room.

Other options:
LAN multiplayer system:

Player host = host the player creates a map on your computer and server will do for customers
Player client = the players player clients connect to the host and choose a point where you want to settle

After that the players allocate their dwarves and play and besiege each other or work together (dwarves are sent to help, fight together against attacks goblins etc)

It also could give the option to choose elves or humans (the problem with this is I guess these races will have another function of evolution therefore their strengths will be in trees, or on the outside and give a lot of work to programmers)

--------------------------

These are things I from my point of view it would add to the game.

Currently I am satisfied with the game that truly is a strategy game endless and I have 233 dwarves in my fortress and not even 10% explored inside the mountain.

By the way anyone knows how to make an alliance with goblins? is that they are sending me 100 enemies and I have filled prisons and they keep the heavy attack xD.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2013, 12:42:33 pm by azraeldestiny »
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Manveru Taurënér

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #6729 on: June 07, 2013, 11:12:19 am »

snip

Welcome to the forums! Suggestions should generally go in the suggestion forums (albeit that some talk usually is still accepted here as long as it relates to current development ish, which is what this theread is meant for). Both slavery and any kind of multiplayer are both really controversial subjects here though, and have both been brought up a lot previously.

There is also only one programmer, might be good to know ^^

As for your end question, there's currently no way to have lasting peace with the goblins, other than modding or possibly using some bugs that I'm unsure if still around.
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Valtam

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #6730 on: June 07, 2013, 11:14:20 am »

Ninja'd.

Also, gameplay discussion for the current release does not belong here. Ask about goblins and stuff in the pertaining place, and alliances with goblins might only be avaliable right now via modding. If you're interested about the next release, color your questions with (lime) green.
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my first quest was to seige a nemacrcors tower i killed 3 nemacrcors the got killed by a zombie fly.
How on earth did you manage to do that twice?

azraeldestiny

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #6731 on: June 07, 2013, 12:42:04 pm »

forgive my lack of tact, I thought that here was the section to discuss things that can comment for future game updates (bug, ideas and things to improve the project) I have no questions regarding future updates to it next update will bring many things. I just started (as many others have here) things I would add if programmer or game designer (ideas).

Anyway thanks for telling me as forum handle me and that I be part of a new user, I'm Spanish and I'm pretty lost looking for information on how to move forward in the game xD. Honestly with this game I'm learning quite English.

Sorry for the inconvenience and the section below standards seeketh not to make more mistakes in the forum :)
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Valtam

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #6732 on: June 07, 2013, 01:27:30 pm »

Sorry for the inconvenience and the section below standards seeketh not to make more mistakes in the forum :)

Don't worry, it might be a bit daunting at the beginning but as soon as you lose a few forts you'll learn a whole slew of tricks. There's a lot more in the current game than surviving goblin sieges, hope you discover a lot of goals for your current genned world, because we mere mortals don't have enough hours a day to play all the Dwarf Fortress we need.

As for the suggestions, they're somewhat foreseeable for the next releases, so we'll see dynamic caravans, inns and, why not, more political and social figures besides diplomats. Now that populations rely more on historical figures and their offspring, we'll maybe see some changes related to warfare.

Slavery, as said above, is a touchy topic, but it depends largely on the civilization ethics.
As for the new settlements, we're getting the hill and deep sites in the next release and they'll play that function to an extent, although we wont have them linked to our own fortress yet. Their role will extend to give us enough dwarfpower to beat foreign lands into messy, drunken submission.

Nobles are also getting more and more relevance as time comes by. Multiplayer, however, is a current no-no, but that doesn't mean we're unable to have a meaningful game experience.

Time to have varying degrees of FUN.
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my first quest was to seige a nemacrcors tower i killed 3 nemacrcors the got killed by a zombie fly.
How on earth did you manage to do that twice?

Neonivek

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #6733 on: June 07, 2013, 05:24:56 pm »

Toady do you picture the incarnate gods (Dragons, Titans, and some such) eventually being legitimate gods in their own right or just fakes that people latch onto?

Assuming of course you have a set idea for that at the moment


While I have my own idea of what they are, I am curious as to yours.
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arkhometha

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #6734 on: June 07, 2013, 05:29:09 pm »

Toady do you picture the incarnate gods (Dragons, Titans, and some such) eventually being legitimate gods in their own right or just fakes that people latch onto?

Assuming of course you have a set idea for that at the moment


While I have my own idea of what they are, I am curious as to yours.

I'm almost sure these pose as gods or are worshiped as so, they are not really incarnate gods. Demi-gods adventurers are more related to gods than titans, I think.

I think the only meddling gods do now are curses.

I could be wrong, though.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2013, 05:32:22 pm by arkhometha »
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