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[WillowLuman]

"Shhh... my cave sense is tingling!"

[Urist Mc Dwarf]

That's a crundle without a valid path to us. Run!!!!!!!!!!!!! We're all gonna dieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Will dwarves ever be able to non-panic when something doesn't have a path to it?[

[CaptainArchmage]

One would think that Dwarves, being underground beings mostly, would have a far better vision than your ordinary human. However they still should require certain levels of light to do certain things.

One would think that Dwarves, being underground beings mostly, would have a far better vision than your ordinary human. However they still should require certain levels of light to do certain things.

To the best of my recollection, in D&D, dwarves (and elves) have infravision.

What did they have in Lord of the Rings?

Shit vision.

In the Hobbit, the dwarves actually end up figuring out that Bilbo has better low-light vision. And Elves of course are even better yet. Though in Lord of the Rings and partially implied in the Hobbit, dwarves have a natural sense when in mines/caves which helped Gimli find his way around a cave in Helm's Deep. (Which sounds more or less like what dwarves already do. Granted Gimli wasn't much help in Moria... which like Battlefailed and Failcannon is really big and filled with multiple paths to everywhere and nowhere which ultimately break the dwarves' natural pathing algorithm.)

Infrared-vision does not help underground. You would see other beings (maybe) but wouldnt see walls or objects. Left out in a cave or tunnel the walls, ground ,your objects etc. would quickly go to a equalized temperature. Its like a snow-white Pony in the snow.

Nightvision in tech works normaly by amplyfing signal (and noise by either lengthening exposure or combining charges) which doesnt work if you have no source for a signal which generates enough contrast. That or you keep a IR source near by, say a couple of IR-LEDs, those light bounces of an object/being and sets of your photocells.

Echolocation is a bit better i think.

"Shhh... my cave sense is tingling!"

So for the most part, dwarves may have a poor ability to work underground without a light source.

Following to both Toady and players:
Lighting. So dwarven embark wagon arrives at a location, they have no source of light. They have embarked on a tropical savannaha, so there are few or no trees. Obviously, dwarves can dig out an area open to the sky and have no problem with lighting, but what are the limits with working? Do you think dwarves will get better vision underground over time as they become cave adapted, so initially they would be forced to stay close to the surface, but later on they would be able to work better underground? Would exposure to the Sun rapidly wipe out their underground bonuses, or would they become light-adapted over time? Would dwarves living underground for very long periods of time (i.e. years on end) have any other effects from cave adaptation besides being able to work normally in light-less conditions, and vomiting out in the Sun? If arrays of mirrors to reflect sunlight underground are possible and built, will this cause dwarves illuminated by such mirrors to vomit?

[FearfulJesuit]

Toady's talked about lighting etc. in DF Talks, but they're not going in this release. I think it's another one of those "we'll get around to it one of these days, but it isn't on the current planning board."

[LordBaal]

Yeah, I asked mostly about now that you have vision arcs and ranges what are the chances of having some item or something else affecting the limits and ranges of your vision, not proper lighting.

Oh, on the other hand, will helmets and such affect the arc of sight?

[Eric Blank]

Yeah, I asked mostly about now that you have vision arcs and ranges what are the chances of having some item or something else affecting the limits and ranges of your vision, not proper lighting.

Oh, on the other hand, will helmets and such affect the arc of sight?

There must be greeen!

I'd imagine that if vision range under poor lighting conditions is ever changeable in the raws, we'd be able to make interactions or syndromes that change it to make items or powers that affect it. Night-eye potions.

[CaptainArchmage]

New devlog update. I know we probably won't get another FotF reply before the release, but:

Do clouds do anything besides cosmetic effect?

Has there actually been a change with the way liquid water (not water as a contaminant) boils when it gets hot enough?

Is the Arena going to have anything other than placeholder rock for material? For example, make the walls and floors out of smooth obsidian?

Is foggy weather going to appear in fortress mode in the coming release?

Have you made changes to vision underground, and if so how will that work without lighting being in the game?


Next up: Site and tree finalisations and release?

[King Mir]

New devlog update. I know we probably won't get another FotF reply before the release, but:

No, the release is still at least a few months away. Toady generally does FotF at the end of the month.

[Footkerchief]

New devlog update. I know we probably won't get another FotF reply before the release, but:

I think we can expect at least one more FotF update.

Do clouds do anything besides cosmetic effect?

In the current release's Adventure Mode, cloudy weather restricts the sight radius (and darkens the palette, I think).

Is the Arena going to have anything other than placeholder rock for material? For example, make the walls and floors out of smooth obsidian?

The devlog mentioned "grass, dirt or sand".

[CaptainArchmage]

The devlog mentioned "grass, dirt or sand".

Saw that. I meant are these things going to be made out of some "placeholder" material like rock (what rock?), grass, dirt, or sand, or will there be an option to use things in the raws? i.e. use limestone for rock, use bubble grass for grass, use fire clay for dirt, and use white sand for sand?

Example: Modded fire grass is really hot, you can specify the arena grass to be fire grass, and see whether it actually sets things on fire.

[Urist Da Vinci]

IF the new stealth rules in adventurer mode also apply to fortress mode, did anyone else note that we now have a good reason to mow the front lawn? Crossing a bare drawbridge or empty paved courtyard outside while being observed would be the hardest feat. Forts that like to have grass, shrubs, and trees everywhere would be a security risk. MAYBE anyone next to a wall gets a boost to stealth, even if it normally wouldn't make sense.

[Eric Blank]

Well, if vision arcs also take effect in fortress mode, our watch animals might not even be looking the right direction at any given time. Still, getting through a hallway full of dogs would be more difficult because you can't just rely on legendary ambusher skill to make you utterly invisible even as you climb over the top of them.

[WillowLuman]

Will combat ever include things like deliberately slamming someone's face into the ground, as opposed to that happening by chance when they are thrown?

I hope one day we can play this game as some awesome combination of masked luchadore and kung-fu master. Then I could make a Wuxia/lucha themed story thread.

[Knight Otu]

"Ever" is such a long time... but it seems to be planned.

Bloat141, WRESTLING MOVES AND MORE INTERFACE, (Future): Lifts, impalements, smashing into terrain, disarms, throat-slitting, etc. Much more wrestling. Make graspers and the most common moves appear at the top of the interface list.

[Gremdavel]

Well, if vision arcs also take effect in fortress mode, our watch animals might not even be looking the right direction at any given time. Still, getting through a hallway full of dogs would be more difficult because you can't just rely on legendary ambusher skill to make you utterly invisible even as you climb over the top of them.

This brings up an interesting point.  Dogs and many other animals rely more on smell and hearing for detection than they do on sight.  Will senses other than sight eventually be taken into consideration in determining whether a sneaking being is revealed?