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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 3826689 times)

Manveru Taurënér

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5505 on: March 01, 2013, 09:47:37 am »

Toady, will you add a possibility of atacking goblin forts?

In Adventure mode this will now be possible, yes. As for Fortress mode we'll have to wait until the Army arc for that.

(It's also customary to green questions for Toady so he can more easily sort them out of the static ;) )
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Pirate Bob

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5506 on: March 01, 2013, 09:49:34 pm »

I'm not sure if the "combat tweaking" you mention in the March report will involve ranged combat, but if it does you might find the testing a group of us did helpful.  The results are summarized on the Material Science page of the wiki and in this bug report.  Urist da Vinci also found that some unusual rounding was occurring when determining projectile velocities, which is reported here.  If this does interest you and you would like any explanation and/or further testing, please let me know.

Edit:  I forgot to mention that I also wrote a summary in a Google doc as well.  I will try to have a look at this document this weekend to make sure it is up-to-date.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2013, 11:34:01 pm by Pirate Bob »
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5507 on: March 01, 2013, 10:46:05 pm »

You mentioned "fake" taverns in the last reply. Do you mean that the taverns you have now are one-dimensinal and "fake," or that there are some establishments masquerading as taverns?
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Putnam

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5508 on: March 01, 2013, 10:47:57 pm »

You mentioned "fake" taverns in the last reply. Do you mean that the taverns you have now are one-dimensinal and "fake," or that there are some establishments masquerading as taverns?

Pretty sure the former.

monk12

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5509 on: March 01, 2013, 11:10:51 pm »

You mentioned "fake" taverns in the last reply. Do you mean that the taverns you have now are one-dimensinal and "fake," or that there are some establishments masquerading as taverns?

Pretty sure the former.

Yeah, right now they're just places for drunks and mercenaries to hang out, as opposed to the fleshed out things they'll be when he does inns and taverns for both modes. I'm pretty sure resistance to goblin occupation isn't organized enough to have a secret HQ, or it would have been mentioned before now. Hopefully the latter makes it in during the thief role so there can be Legitimate Businessman's Social Clubs and the like as well.

arkhometha

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5510 on: March 02, 2013, 12:12:07 am »

I'm not sure if the "combat tweaking" you mention in the March report will involve ranged combat, but if it does you might find the testing a group of us did helpful.  The results are summarized on the Material Science page of the wiki and in this bug report.  Urist da Vinci also found that some unusual rounding was occurring when determining projectile velocities, which is reported here.  If this does interest you and you would like any explanation and/or further testing, please let me know.

Edit:  I forgot to mention that I also wrote a summary in a Google doc as well.  I will try to have a look at this document this weekend to make sure it is up-to-date.

I echo this Toady, will you consider taking a look at that research and maybe change bows and crossbows so they are not railguns anymore?
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WillowLuman

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5511 on: March 02, 2013, 12:56:39 am »

I can't wait for the day when we can cause insurrections against perfectly fine regimes that everyone was fine and happy living with until we come along and convince them they aren't. You know, just for kicks.
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arkhometha

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5512 on: March 02, 2013, 01:20:17 am »

I can't wait for the day when we can cause insurrections against perfectly fine regimes that everyone was fine and happy living with until we come along and convince them they aren't. You know, just for kicks.
Well, you kinda can do that right now. Start a loyalty cascade and watch a civil war going on.
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King Mir

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5513 on: March 02, 2013, 05:44:24 am »

How many z levels can a dwarf jump down without getting hurt?

To pull back up Toady's quote...

I don't remember how falling down on people works currently, but I don't think that part has changed.  There's the new jump command, but it really just turns you into a projectile that knows how to land correctly.  I haven't gotten back to the part where moves and attacks are combined now that the split has happened.  I'm not sure what'll be done exactly when that rolls back around.

That would probably mean 1 tile, 2 with negligible injuries, just like if they had been dropped from a retracting drawbridge.  (Possibly with a bonus save against injuries for landing properly.)

It depends on the total mass of the creature in question, though - I remember having modded creatures that were super-massive that would shatter into a billion pieces from a single-tile drop.
Yes, that's precisely what my question is in follow up to. I want to know what it means to "know how to land".

Cruxador

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5514 on: March 02, 2013, 05:59:54 am »

I'm not sure if the "combat tweaking" you mention in the March report will involve ranged combat, but if it does you might find the testing a group of us did helpful.  The results are summarized on the Material Science page of the wiki and in this bug report.  Urist da Vinci also found that some unusual rounding was occurring when determining projectile velocities, which is reported here.  If this does interest you and you would like any explanation and/or further testing, please let me know.

Edit:  I forgot to mention that I also wrote a summary in a Google doc as well.  I will try to have a look at this document this weekend to make sure it is up-to-date.

I echo this Toady, will you consider taking a look at that research and maybe change bows and crossbows so they are not railguns anymore?

1. This is a suggestion not a question.
2. He already made these weapons much slower in this release. As he mentioned in the recent FotF answers, they now have a delay after firing, though he plans to replace that with a proper reloading mechanic at some point.
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Wimopy

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5515 on: March 02, 2013, 07:04:43 am »

Toady, in the FotF reply, you also mentioned giving alcohol effects. Judging by how alcohol is a base for dwarves ("they need alcohol to get through the working day"), how would it effect life in the fort?
Elaborating on the question: What effects would drink have on dwarves and their productivity? Could they become just like Drunks and useless for a few hours? Or are they already simple enough to not have real visible effects?

I understand it's not coming any time soon, but it caught my attention because of its "everyday" effects for the game.
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Pirate Bob

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5516 on: March 02, 2013, 07:58:31 am »

I'm not sure if the "combat tweaking" you mention in the March report will involve ranged combat, but if it does you might find the testing a group of us did helpful.  The results are summarized on the Material Science page of the wiki and in this bug report.  Urist da Vinci also found that some unusual rounding was occurring when determining projectile velocities, which is reported here.  If this does interest you and you would like any explanation and/or further testing, please let me know.

Edit:  I forgot to mention that I also wrote a summary in a Google doc as well.  I will try to have a look at this document this weekend to make sure it is up-to-date.

I echo this Toady, will you consider taking a look at that research and maybe change bows and crossbows so they are not railguns anymore?

1. This is a suggestion not a question.
2. He already made these weapons much slower in this release. As he mentioned in the recent FotF answers, they now have a delay after firing, though he plans to replace that with a proper reloading mechanic at some point.
2.  I am nearly certain this is not true.  Crossbows and bows have always had a huge delay after they are fired (edit - at least since DF2010 - I can't say before that), and I don't believe anything has changed about this yet.  The change is that with the new combat mechanics Toady could break down the firing of ranged weapons into loading, aiming etc, and he indicated in the last FotF that he might do so:
Quote
The only example I remember from upthread about an ability taking "dozens" of turns was the post-fire period of a ranged weapon, which probably shouldn't exist as such.  That needs to be replaced by loading. 
If he does this, then it stands to reason he might balance ranged attacks at the same time.  I figured it couldn't hurt to mention that we have a mountain of testing results that he could look at if he wants to balance ranged weapons.  Or not.  I don't know if he will find our results useful or if he even wants to balance ranged weapons.  That's up to him. 

If you want to debate whether ranged weapons should be balanced, I don't believe this is the place, as Toady doesn't have time to read long debates (a.k.a. flaming  :P).  Consider another thread, such as our original testing thread (or start your own).
« Last Edit: March 02, 2013, 09:21:21 am by Pirate Bob »
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King Mir

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5517 on: March 02, 2013, 09:25:47 am »

Balancing old features is, in my opinion, something that Toady does not do effectively. Toady does a reasonable job getting things right the first time, but inevitably some added features are realized to be unbalanced. Yet there is no process for re-balancing features after they are added. The closest thing is that unambiguously broken features get added as bugs. Bug fix cycles fix critical bugs, but balance issues tend not to be critical when they are added as bugs, and often they aren't added as bugs, because it's not clear that they are intended to be unbalanced or not. This is unfortunate, because you'd thing that the rolling development cycle would be ideal for re-balancing.

Still, we can hope. Maybe we will get balanced range weapons. And balanced siege machines.

tps12

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5518 on: March 02, 2013, 10:47:23 am »

On adding gay dwarves to DF:

Obviously, that'd be a touchy and controversial subject. It's a "hot" political and religious topic right now.

Haha, legal gay marriage might be controversial (in some places), but the existence of homosexuality is pretty well settled at this point, I think.
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Nicolo

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5519 on: March 02, 2013, 12:38:35 pm »

could be a solution to the overpopulation of children problem
maybe a specific noble could mandate dorf marriage either way
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