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[Neonivek]

I think it's more an attempt to make it at least theoretically possible to sneak into a goblin tower if you are skilled enough, rather than entirely impossible because the goblins are packed like sardines in every available space.

Though you have to admit, that would make for some hilarious infiltration missions.

"Alright, Urist, what do you see around the corner?"
"Uh, about thirty goblins in a twenty foot space. I think it's the rec room."
".....Shit."

Well of course it would be nearly impossible to sneak in and out of a fortress that also hosts the population.

It is like sneaking into the center of a city going by the main roads while wearing a Barney suit without getting seen.

[EmeraldWind]

I think it's more an attempt to make it at least theoretically possible to sneak into a goblin tower if you are skilled enough, rather than entirely impossible because the goblins are packed like sardines in every available space.

Though you have to admit, that would make for some hilarious infiltration missions.

"Alright, Urist, what do you see around the corner?"
"Uh, about thirty goblins in a twenty foot space. I think it's the rec room."
".....Shit."

Well of course it would be nearly impossible to sneak in and out of a fortress that also hosts the population.

It is like sneaking into the center of a city going by the main roads while wearing a Barney suit without getting seen.

Except that your not taking main roads or at least not the commonly used ones and since goblin towers will have populations from other races there would be other people running around in Barney suits.

[monk12]

And now I can't wait for the day you can disguise yourself to look like the slaves/reformed citizenry.

[werechicken]

If you want to see how difficult it is to sneak into a fortress just look at how often kobold thieves are detected in a standard fortress, and that's a race with trap avoid.

[Neonivek]

Except that your not taking main roads or at least not the commonly used ones and since goblin towers will have populations from other races there would be other people running around in Barney suits

You are since Goblins all live in Forts. A hallway is a main road.

Goblins don't have villages, houses, or hobbles... They all live in huge forts.

As well you are not going in there incognito, nor are you dressed for the part.

[Anatoli]

Is there an ingame reason for goblins to have sneakable hallways besides "to allow the player to sneak into their fortress"? Also, could you clear up the confusion in the community about this?Since the human cities are created as a simulation, and the sewers with catacombs make sense, I would expect the same idea from the goblin towers. I am not sure I'm comfortable with the goblin towers created specifically so they could be sneaked into. It would make sense to need a strong army to enter a goblin stronghold.

I understand the need to make for an interesting adventure for the player character, but if you think about it, as the world progresses, there might be some NPC heroes who might try their luck. I would expect the world to be fair to them (the goblins probably don't want to leave hallways to have them sneaking around). I think it would make for an interesting distraction possibilities, and as has been suggested, dressing up as a slave type of thing.

[Tsuchigumo550]

Is there an ingame reason for goblins to have sneakable hallways besides "to allow the player to sneak into their fortress"?Since the human cities are created as a simulation, and the sewers with catacombs make sense, I would expect the same idea from the goblin towers. I am not sure I'm comfortable with the goblin towers created specifically so they could be sneaked into. It would make sense to need a strong army to enter a goblin stronghold.

I understand the need to make for an interesting adventure for the player character, but if you think about it, as the world progresses, there might be some NPC heroes who might try their luck. I would expect the world to be fair to them (the goblins probably don't want to leave hallways to have them sneaking around). I think it would make for an interesting distraction possibilities, and as has been suggested, dressing up as a slave type of thing.

This is fine, but I think Toady was aiming for "you can sneak through the main part of the gobbo sites but if you're loothunting then they'll find you eventually. If it was impossible to sneak at all, that would be bad as well- it's fairly easy to sneak around with today's architecture, why any different for the goblins?

[Neonivek]

I don't think Toady is trying to make Fortresses Sneakable.

I think he is trying to make it without choke points of dozens of goblins.

Imagine fighting that many goblins going through a dark fortress.

[DG]

I don't think Toady is trying to make Fortresses Sneakable.

I think he is trying to make it without choke points of dozens of goblins.

Imagine fighting that many goblins going through a dark fortress.

You don't like the idea of sneaking into a dark frotress but don't mind the idea of a frontal assault as long as the goblins are only two or three to a room?

[Phlum]

I don't think Toady is trying to make Fortresses Sneakable.

I think he is trying to make it without choke points of dozens of goblins.

Imagine fighting that many goblins going through a dark fortress.

a legendary ambusher should be able to do anything, thats why ninjas are so popular.

[Neonivek]

I don't think Toady is trying to make Fortresses Sneakable.

I think he is trying to make it without choke points of dozens of goblins.

Imagine fighting that many goblins going through a dark fortress.

a legendary ambusher should be able to do anything, thats why ninjas are so popular.

Yeah but "Stealth Ninjas" are somewhat of a myth.

No one should stand in an open hallway and be "hidden"

A better thing would be high stealth skill allows a "hide reaction"

[Anatoli]

I don't think Toady is trying to make Fortresses Sneakable.

I think he is trying to make it without choke points of dozens of goblins.

Imagine fighting that many goblins going through a dark fortress.

a legendary ambusher should be able to do anything, thats why ninjas are so popular.

Yeah but "Stealth Ninjas" are somewhat of a myth.

No one should stand in an open hallway and be "hidden"

A better thing would be high stealth skill allows a "hide reaction"

In canalization, ventilation, unfinished and abandoned passages, in piles of junk, on the ceiling support, anything. I'm not sure that's what's Toady is doing. I think we can at least agree that there is a collective dissonance about this in the community, which is why we need clarification.

[misko27]

I don't think Toady is trying to make Fortresses Sneakable.

I think he is trying to make it without choke points of dozens of goblins.

Imagine fighting that many goblins going through a dark fortress.

a legendary ambusher should be able to do anything, thats why ninjas are so popular.

Yeah but "Stealth Ninjas" are somewhat of a myth.

No one should stand in an open hallway and be "hidden"

A better thing would be high stealth skill allows a "hide reaction"

In canalization, ventilation, unfinished and abandoned passages, in piles of junk, on the ceiling support, anything. I'm not sure that's what's Toady is doing. I think we can at least agree that there is a collective dissonance about this in the community, which is why we need clarification.

I sure hope so. Because, while a legendary ambusher could possibly do this in a dark fortress or dungeon, I can still accomplish this in broad daylight in a empty field.

[smirk]

I don't think Toady is trying to make Fortresses Sneakable.

I think he is trying to make it without choke points of dozens of goblins.

Imagine fighting that many goblins going through a dark fortress.

a legendary ambusher should be able to do anything, thats why ninjas are so popular.

Yeah but "Stealth Ninjas" are somewhat of a myth.

No one should stand in an open hallway and be "hidden"

A better thing would be high stealth skill allows a "hide reaction"

In canalization, ventilation, unfinished and abandoned passages, in piles of junk, on the ceiling support, anything. I'm not sure that's what's Toady is doing. I think we can at least agree that there is a collective dissonance about this in the community, which is why we need clarification.

(man, Collective Dissonance would be such an awesome band name)

Might as well ask, then. Toady, would you mind clarifying how you're fixing the "open areas filled with dozens of goblins"? Are you spreading things out to make sense, or deliberately making it a little more game-y, or something entirely different?

Personally, seeing as how he's using some of the keep+dungeon code for this to make it go faster (called it ), then he's probably trying to stop chokes. Always thought it was a little odd how my adventurer can wander through empty passage after empty room after empty passage in dungeons, only to find the entirety of a bandit group crammed into the same 7x7 space. Making gobbos wander a bit more around their own castle would make sense to me.

[irdsm]

Does the picture in the devlog remind anyone else of their usual early bedroom setup?