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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 3807581 times)

Knight Otu

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2475 on: June 20, 2012, 12:23:27 pm »

By the end of this update arc, will DF be able to handle all the births and age-related deaths behind the scenes? In other words, if we have a world we spend a lot of time with (like, say, 300 years), will we still have to worry about all the humans dying out from old age after a certain point?
At the very least, that's a goal for this update cycle, as per "Changing populations, food use and other world gen stuff moved to actual play" from the Dev page. So I'd say chances are good.

And while we're on the subject of nonlethal combat, are there any plans to reduce the lethality of blows to the head? So that a heavy fist upside the head would be more likely to just render one unconscious most of the time? It would certainly make hand-to-hand and brawling a lot more fun, IMO.
Yes. Blows to the head came up in DF Talk #13 at least:
Quote
The tavern release will have non-lethal fighting because there'll be bar fights and we don't want bar fights to be like 'You punch him in the face, jamming the skull into the brain, killing him instantly' or whatever. We're going to have to change combat a bit to make fist fights work because right now fist fights are way too dangerous, but it should work out in the end.

Will creature movement speed be variable by caste, gender, etc.?
Near-sessile queens and fast-moving drones would be the obvious natural example here, but there are many uses.
Almost certainly. SPEED and SWIM_SPEED (and IMMOBILE) already are caste-level tokens, so any attack speed differentiation most likely will be as well.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2012, 12:26:04 pm by Knight Otu »
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CaptainArchmage

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2476 on: June 20, 2012, 03:09:59 pm »

Now that we're moving into dealing with heroes and villains, are we going to have some "generic" content added? For example, certain heroes may have radically different fighting styles, some villains may live behind a vast array of traps and minions, and heroes may have their own varying moral codes.
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Knight Otu

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2477 on: June 20, 2012, 03:25:30 pm »

Now that we're moving into dealing with heroes and villains, are we going to have some "generic" content added? For example, certain heroes may have radically different fighting styles, some villains may live behind a vast array of traps and minions, and heroes may have their own varying moral codes.

That's pretty much all on the dev page for the hero role:
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Combat styles
Hideouts with some basic fortifications/Breaking into fortified locations
Expansion of personality system to support more value-judgment-based properties such as bravery vs. cowardice/apathy/recklessness
The personality and hideout changes are likely to come in with the next release/next few releases. I wouldn't hold my breath for combat styles, though the combat flow changes may help in that regard.
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zwei

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2478 on: June 21, 2012, 01:35:47 am »

will the next changes include a nerfing of crossbows, both overpowered in Fortress mode

[citation needed] - I am not sure is it realistic but it is balanced, it is impossible to kill invaders using crossbows (hurt yes, but killing is almost impossible). I can even say that it is one of few examples where DF is balanced.

If there isn't any way of defending yourself against an invader usign a crossbow, no matter how well-prepared you are, then it's not balanced. I don't agree with that statement anyway.

My point was more concerned with Adventure mode.
There when you fire with a bow or a crossbow, you stand still for several turns unable to do anything to simulate the "reload". So you can't carry a crossbow around, fire a shot at an enemy when you see one then drop it immediately to unsheath yout sword and, after the fight is over, reload your crossbow.
It's also annoying that your fire rate using a crossbow is severely lowered if you take a blow to the ankle (although that can be explained by saying you typically need to be standing when you reload a crossbow).

Problem with realistic fire rate is that game does not support realistic equipment and behavior in this regard: It would have been great if it took considerable time to reload in dwarf mode, but for that to work, you would also need to give crossbowdwarves secondary melee weapon which they would draw when approached in melee.

Adventure mode npcs would suffer this too.

hermes

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2479 on: June 21, 2012, 04:00:26 am »

Problem with realistic fire rate is that game does not support realistic equipment and behavior in this regard: It would have been great if it took considerable time to reload in dwarf mode, but for that to work, you would also need to give crossbowdwarves secondary melee weapon which they would draw when approached in melee.

Adventure mode npcs would suffer this too.

That seems like a pretty easy AI script:  Keep using crossbow, if melee-attacked drop it or stow it and equip melee weapon, if not being attacked start using crossbow again.  Ideally there'd be a proximity trigger on the weapon switch, but that'd be more involved.  Are cancelled attacks part of the combat goals?  Current goals?  If so then that could go towards better crossbow usage, i.e. cancelling reloading to defend self.

I'm dying for the combat/movement-speed split.  Literally.  Stupid horses killed my adventurer the other night by dancing all over the place and throwing a thousand horsey-boxing punches before I could so much as wave my sword around.  Sneak... sneak... sneak.... *bumps into horse* death!  I don't know about you guys, but even with absolutely zero training with a sword, if you put one in my hand, in a field with a horse, I'd fancy my chances.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2012, 04:29:02 am by hermes »
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Dae

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2480 on: June 21, 2012, 04:09:31 am »

I don't know about you guys, but even with absolutely zero training with a sword, if you put one in my hand, in a field with a horse, I'd fancy my chances.

Against a hostile horse, I'd bet your chest getting caved-in, but you could probably wound the horse during the process. Or if attacked from behind, your lower jaw cracked into your skull.
Horses are tough sons of bitches unless you cut off a leg.
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BinaryBeast1010011010

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2481 on: June 21, 2012, 04:17:47 am »

It would not be about sword training but more about general combat training. Knowing how to move quickly, keep your balance and all of that. sword training would help of course (clean blows that severs legs as an example and dont get stuck in) but the main problem would be avoiding getting your skull crushed and chest caved in as DAE pointed out.
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Jacko13

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2482 on: June 21, 2012, 04:40:35 am »

I don't know about you guys, but even with absolutely zero training with a sword, if you put one in my hand, in a field with a horse, I'd fancy my chances.

Against a hostile horse, I'd bet your chest getting caved-in, but you could probably wound the horse during the process. Or if attacked from behind, your lower jaw cracked into your skull.
Horses are tough sons of bitches unless you cut off a leg.

I have trained with a longsword and I would not fancy my chances against a charging horse. They look big on the telly or standing in a field somewhere. When moving fast in your direction...oh mummy save me! ;-)
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BinaryBeast1010011010

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2483 on: June 21, 2012, 05:01:46 am »

Swords are just not made for fighting  horses, better use a spear or a halberd. I'd rather use the latter because you can jump out of the way AND slash its legs whilst it's  charging. With a spear you can put the butt into the ground and level the blade at the horse's chest. Its more dangerous (you are more likely to miss) if you are alone but when you are within a small infantry unit against charging cavalry its definitely better.
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Jacko13

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2484 on: June 21, 2012, 05:04:41 am »

^
^
^
What he said!
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eux0r

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2485 on: June 21, 2012, 06:13:03 am »

Swords are just not made for fighting  horses, better use a spear or a halberd. I'd rather use the latter because you can jump out of the way AND slash its legs whilst it's  charging. With a spear you can put the butt into the ground and level the blade at the horse's chest. Its more dangerous (you are more likely to miss) if you are alone but when you are within a small infantry unit against charging cavalry its definitely better.

you can use a spear to slash sideways too, since the tip is long enough and also sharpened at its sides(like a knife or dagger) and swinging such a long pole makes the tip go at quite the high speeds. actually, thats an even more common use of the weapon than actual stabbing in some combat forms and can easily be more effective(logically that depends on a lot of factors). i always mod in such an attack too.
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BinaryBeast1010011010

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2486 on: June 21, 2012, 06:27:02 am »

Indeed you can slash with the tip, but a halberd blade is heavier so it make it easyer if the goal is to cut off the horse's leg. Of course if you just want to open the throat or make it die from bleeding the spear will do.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2012, 06:37:27 am by BinaryBeast1010011010 »
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EvilTwin

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2487 on: June 21, 2012, 07:01:45 am »

no need to cut off the leg entirely, just disable it.. That's not harder than cutting the throat, depending on your anatomy knowledge it might even be a lot easier to pull off.
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BinaryBeast1010011010

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2488 on: June 21, 2012, 08:07:29 am »

Spear is enough ay, but against an armored horse, better use a halberd. Unless you are skilled enough to stick the spear between the plates the weight of the halberd will alow you to hack through them with inertia.
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Quatch

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2489 on: June 21, 2012, 12:44:00 pm »

Halbard also has a bit of the crossbar implied. You don't want the whole boar problem, and I think a charging horse is heavy and fast enough that the inertia will carry it through.
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