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[HiEv]

That would be cool but it could also be an opportunity to rework how which side to smooth/engrave from works in general.  Because only the side engraved from gets the value bonus from engravings, it can be a pain in the ass to get engravers to engrave a noble's room and not the other side of the bloody wall.

Are you sure? I don't think that's true...

That's what I was thinking.  As far as I'm aware, the wall is completely engraved on all sides, even though it's the same image from any perspective, thus all adjoining rooms that include the engraved wall get the value bonus.

[Knight Otu]

That would be cool but it could also be an opportunity to rework how which side to smooth/engrave from works in general.  Because only the side engraved from gets the value bonus from engravings, it can be a pain in the ass to get engravers to engrave a noble's room and not the other side of the bloody wall. 

Are you sure? I don't think that's true...

From an old post from Toady, at least it used to be true. Whether it still is, I don't know. The test would be to have a bedroom with a locked door, check its relative value in the Rooms screen, then smooth its walls (which would then be engraved from the outside), then check the resulting relative value, and then repeat with engraving. I want to say that I think I've seen the engravings to both sides, but again, I don't know for sure. It might have just been smoothing.

[Uristocrat]

Love the work on fixing the dwarven AI!

Have you had any luck fixing the cases where dwarves have a valid square right next to them, but insist on mining it out from the other side because of the set order in which they consider valid squares?  If I'm not mistaken, most of the time that would be fixable by having them prefer the closest valid square, where "closeness" is defined as abs(dwarf.x - destination.x) + abs(dwarf.y - destination.y) + abs(dwarf.z - destination.z), which is much simpler than a full path.  Or is there some case where that heuristic fails?  It seems to work for the common cases I have where you're mining out hallways, at least.  There are other possible AI improvements, too, like having your miners get "first dibs" on any new mining jobs created when they mine out a square.

And speaking of AI, what if the goblin squads automatically "promote" the next goblin in line whenever the leader is killed or unable to move (caged, no legs, etc.)?  Then they could keep their follow the leader logic and just have a new leader to follow.  Or are there complications that make those ideas unworkable?

[Willfor]

And speaking of AI, what if the goblin squads automatically "promote" the next goblin in line whenever the leader is killed or unable to move (caged, no legs, etc.)?  Then they could keep their follow the leader logic and just have a new leader to follow.  Or are there complications that make those ideas unworkable?

Speaking from a simulational aesthetics point of view, I would rather this only happen if there is a goblin with a leadership-type personality to take over. If there is no goblin with a clear leadership personality left, they shouldn't do this. Or if there are many, but without a clear mandate, they should have a small power struggle before they can regroup, causing dissension in the ranks.

I know this doesn't sit well with the "game" side of it, but if he's going to change it, I'd want it moved more towards the simulation/story aspect than toward the game aspect.

[Chronas]

Speaking from a simulational aesthetics point of view, I would rather this only happen if there is a goblin with a leadership-type personality to take over. If there is no goblin with a clear leadership personality left, they shouldn't do this. Or if there are many, but without a clear mandate, they should have a small power struggle before they can regroup, causing dissension in the ranks.
I know this doesn't sit well with the "game" side of it, but if he's going to change it, I'd want it moved more towards the simulation/story aspect than toward the game aspect.

I'd consider that a game aspect. Drop a minecart loaded with a forgotten beast onto their leader and watch them kill each other over who gets to lead everyone down the corridor of deathtraps they seem so keen to stand on.

[PTTG??]

That would be cool but it could also be an opportunity to rework how which side to smooth/engrave from works in general.  Because only the side engraved from gets the value bonus from engravings, it can be a pain in the ass to get engravers to engrave a noble's room and not the other side of the bloody wall. 

Are you sure? I don't think that's true...

From an old post from Toady, at least it used to be true. Whether it still is, I don't know. The test would be to have a bedroom with a locked door, check its relative value in the Rooms screen, then smooth its walls (which would then be engraved from the outside), then check the resulting relative value, and then repeat with engraving. I want to say that I think I've seen the engravings to both sides, but again, I don't know for sure. It might have just been smoothing.

That's a greenable question. From what I recall, only one side of the wall is actually "engraved", but I am not sure how that works mechanically.

[Rose]

From some forays into memory hacking, each engraving keeps track of which sides of the wall it's engraved on. You can see which sides those are in stonesense, but I'm not sure how that effects room value.

[PTTG??]

Well, at least now I don't feel stupid for making sure all my walls are at least two tiles thick.

[Rose]

Interestingly enough, it is possible for an engraving to be on more than one side of the wall at a time. It just doesn't happen in normal play.

[nidpants]

You've addressed some of the clumsiness of stockpiles by adding additional features and making lists scale beyond the native window size (PHEW). Is this just incidental to bugsweeping and implementation of hauling improvement, or is this part of a larger near-future framework of increasing usability in the next few releases? I realize you have a total usability overhaul planned for after the caravan arc at least, but I absolutely love the improvements you made to stockpiles and hauling so far in 0.34.

[O11O1]

Interestingly enough, it is possible for an engraving to be on more than one side of the wall at a time. It just doesn't happen in normal play.

If you hack in a quadruple engraved wall, and then look at it with 'k' while in normal game, what happens? Does only the first/last show up? Do all four show up one after the other? Does the game simply crash?


It makes me wonder if we could have multi engraving added in at some point. Perhaps the interface can be as simple as "when you designate an area to be engraved, any tile with one accessible surface gets an engraving." Thus, in a manner not unlike how strait tracks can be carved into t-junctions and then cross junctions, the "engraved" pillar just starts blinking again until the carver gets up to the clean face. Floors seem like they would only have the one clean surface to engrave, which would have the side-effect of encouraging pillars in your dining halls, for more engravable, value-raising planes.

[drvoke]

creatures not safe from fire will run out of lethally hot squares

Is this related to my dwarfs not getting out of the way of oncoming magma?

I wasn't sure if the new, suicidal behavior my miners and masons were exhibiting was a bug or not.  Same as for making "safe" waterflow (no aquatic monsters get through), I carve fortifications into the sides of magma tubes to let the magma into the tunnels and channels for my forges and smelters.  Previously legit dwarf behavior (carving the fortification, getting out of the way of oncoming magma) turned into incredibly insane behavior (carving the fortification, waiting for oncoming magma to catch them on fire before running around, setting other things on fire, and dying of terminal immolation).  It makes bringing magma into the fortress incredibly tricky, but it wasn't so unbalanced (given the benefits that safe magma access provides) that I thought it was definitely unintended behavior.

[Neonivek]

Lucky for you eventually you won't have to worry about that.

Magma will instantly kill your dwarves. (Heat and cold are rather weak and too powerful at the same time)

[MrWiggles]

You've addressed some of the clumsiness of stockpiles by adding additional features and making lists scale beyond the native window size (PHEW). Is this just incidental to bugsweeping and implementation of hauling improvement, or is this part of a larger near-future framework of increasing usability in the next few releases? I realize you have a total usability overhaul planned for after the caravan arc at least, but I absolutely love the improvements you made to stockpiles and hauling so far in 0.34.

Source on the usability overhaul?

[Naryar]

Next bugfix is gonna be awesome, great job Toady !

Finally no more of dwarf deconstructing stupidly a floor when trying to provoke a cave-in !