Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Arkenstone]

Ok, since nearly half a dozen pages have been posted in as many hours, with only a scarce few actual questions, I have made a dedicated thread for the rubble/slow mining discussion.

[xRDVx]

If you think of rubble as "a stack of X stone" treated as a "single object" - much like "pine bolts [25]" is treated as "one object" until items are pealed off and used, that's one way rubble could be used to actually -reduce- the number of distinct items tracked by the engine.

Treated -this- way, "rubble" is just a square with a "stack" of stone that's too full to traverse.

Managing a immediate hovel in the earth -> still easy. Dig a double-size area, shove the stone from one half into the other half. That is: Not 100% rubble-retention.

But it allows a middle-ground between the 10,000 stones in a quantum-stockpile (that is still even passable!) and the one-stone-per-square stockpile.

Instead of thinking this as "OMG, extra work" it instead becomes "So excellent, the goal is to get -stacking- working correctly!"  The only addition being that a -stack- of stone can block a square once it's X high.

On the crafting side: It should use -blocks- anyway. A 2m x 2m x 3m stone converting to a ring is silly. A 'cinderblock' sized block is a decent size for all of the crafts.

This would be a nice solution. Not only for rubble/rock, but for other [stock]piles too. I mean, you can put one barrel on top of another, right?

[Alkhemia]

I think Toady probable already has a plan for the mining changes so instead of filling the this thread with rubble or no rubble discussion why not ask him?

[KillHour]

i doubt you'd be able to mine one full cubic meter of any but the softer stones in 24 hours using 19th century tools, even if you didn't have to clear away the rubble

I don't understand how someone could have MORE fun with a game when everything takes twice as long.  Try setting the FPS cap lower?

[Arkenstone]

This would be a nice solution. Not only for rubble/rock, but for other [stock]piles too. I mean, you can put one barrel on top of another, right?

I don't understand how someone could have MORE fun with a game when everything takes twice as long.  Try setting the FPS cap lower?

*AHEM*

Ok, since nearly half a dozen pages have been posted in as many hours, with only a scarce few actual questions, I have made a dedicated thread for the rubble/slow mining discussion.

~~~~~~

I think Toady probable already has a plan for the mining changes so instead of filling the this thread with rubble or no rubble discussion why not ask him?

Ditto.

[Arkenstone]

Back on topic, I really like the changes that've been made.  In fact, Toady's gone and solved almost every problem I've had with the game!  (Don't worry, I'm sure my OCD-ness will find more soon enough...)

First I can limit material usage by designating specific stockpiles to feed specific workshops, and then I don't have to worry about using only skilled miners for gems and ores!  In fact, I had a hard time figuring out where to put my third Eternal Suggestion vote (I eventually settled on Religion).

So then, I eagerly await the release!

What's next?!

[Kanil]

I really don't like the removal of skill-based mining rates. While I no longer have to train a legendary miner, I now do have to do four times the mining. It's a tradeoff that's not really worth it and doesn't add anything to the game, it merely makes it more tedious.

Certainly not a severe issue, or one that will destroy my enjoyment of the game... but definitely one that's pointless and makes the game slightly worse.

[O11O1]

What sort of timeline is there for handling sand in a more realistic/fluidic manner? these new mine carts and wheelbarrows seem well placed to extract it.

[Arkenstone]

I really don't like the removal of skill-based mining rates. While I no longer have to train a legendary miner, I now do have to do four times the mining. It's a tradeoff that's not really worth it and doesn't add anything to the game, it merely makes it more tedious.

Certainly not a severe issue, or one that will destroy my enjoyment of the game... but definitely one that's pointless and makes the game slightly worse.

Hmmm......  Anyone agree with him?

PS: fyi, the only thing you'll have to do 4x the mining to get is boulders.  Bars come multiple to an ore now, as do blocks (for constructions), and gems drop 100%.  Stone crafts can't be that important, can they?  (Well, it *will* make obsidian farming slower...)

[schm0]

This also means there's actually a point to making block walls instead of rough stone walls.

I know there's a few more of me out there, but I can't stand people who just smooth walls and floors with ugly colored veins throughout their fortresses. Always build floors/remove/smooth and all walls are constructed unless there is a specific need for engravings. That's the only reason why you shouldn't be using stone to construct floors/walls in the first place, IMO... the interface isn't that great for it, but then again, what interface in this game is?

I'm a bit concerned about the 25% stone returns, but there's 40+ z-levels to dig through before you magma. Seems like plenty of stone to be had there, even if you have to dig through caverns to get to it.

[bombzero]

I really don't like the removal of skill-based mining rates. While I no longer have to train a legendary miner, I now do have to do four times the mining. It's a tradeoff that's not really worth it and doesn't add anything to the game, it merely makes it more tedious.

Certainly not a severe issue, or one that will destroy my enjoyment of the game... but definitely one that's pointless and makes the game slightly worse.

wait wait wait wait wait. you have to TRY to get stone in the current version? 90% of people are TRYING to get rid of it all

[Kanil]

I really don't like the removal of skill-based mining rates. While I no longer have to train a legendary miner, I now do have to do four times the mining. It's a tradeoff that's not really worth it and doesn't add anything to the game, it merely makes it more tedious.

Certainly not a severe issue, or one that will destroy my enjoyment of the game... but definitely one that's pointless and makes the game slightly worse.

Hmmm......  Anyone agree with him?

PS: fyi, the only thing you'll have to do 4x the mining to get is boulders.  Bars come multiple to an ore now, as do blocks (for constructions), and gems drop 100%.  Stone crafts can't be that important, can they?  (Well, it *will* make obsidian farming slower...)

I exclusively build above ground forts. I realize I am a minority in this aspect, but that is basically all this change does. I now have to mine four times the tiles, instead of training a legendary miner.

If your problem is too much stone, then I really don't feel this is a good way to solve that.

[Askot Bokbondeler]

i don't care much for the new system, and i don't care much for the old system, so i'm not trying to defend any position here but

I now have to mine four times the tiles, instead of training a legendary miner.

you can make 4 blocks out of one boulder in the masonry shop now. one dabbling miner produces as much building stone as a legendary miner in the old system. it's only with furniture, and possibly steel making, that you have to worry now

[slink]

This also means there's actually a point to making block walls instead of rough stone walls.

I know there's a few more of me out there, but I can't stand people who just smooth walls and floors with ugly colored veins throughout their fortresses. Always build floors/remove/smooth and all walls are constructed unless there is a specific need for engravings. That's the only reason why you shouldn't be using stone to construct floors/walls in the first place, IMO... the interface isn't that great for it, but then again, what interface in this game is?

I'm a bit concerned about the 25% stone returns, but there's 40+ z-levels to dig through before you magma. Seems like plenty of stone to be had there, even if you have to dig through caverns to get to it.

What's the point of having an engraver, and a world history to engrave, if you can't engrave the walls because they are all constructed?    

Luckily for me, the existence of people who construct all their walls doesn't bother me in the slightest.   

Personally, I will wait and see what happens.  My concern over the colors of stone available at only 25% yield was covered by someone else above.  In the worst case, I can change the raws so the available stones have the colors I want for a given construction.  I have to laugh at the outrage some people post over those of us who choose to sell rock crafts/instruments/toys/mugs instead of leather-appliqued pig tail shirts and gem-encrusted lead bins.  Most of my later purchasing is done with blood-spattered silk clothing.  As long as goblins show up fully clothed, I will never want.  In the first couple of years, rock crafts buy what I can't carry with me, but increased embark points will bridge that gap if I can't make the goods in a normal fashion.  And if all else fails, there is the smelter.   

[Keldane]

i don't care much for the new system, and i don't care much for the old system, so i'm not trying to defend any position here but

I now have to mine four times the tiles, instead of training a legendary miner.

you can make 4 blocks out of one boulder in the masonry shop now. one dabbling miner produces as much building stone as a legendary miner in the old system. it's only with furniture, and possibly steel making, that you have to worry now

This is only true if you're guaranteed to get one boulder every four tiles mined. If it's actually a 25% chance of getting a boulder for each tile, then the odds are not at all in your favor. It's technically possible, under such a system, to mine out a 10x10 room and not get a single usable stone.