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[Rinin_Rus]

Will it be possible to make a customizable dump? Cuz I really wanna dump all cheap or bad decorated crossbows into magma. As well as bad cloth and other.

[Rose]

I doubt it, since using a dump for anything that doesn't involve getting rid of stuff is an exploit.

[Siquo]

I doubt it, since using a dump for anything that doesn't involve getting rid of stuff is an exploit.

But he does want to get rid of stuff. The only other way I can imagine is a "floating stockpile", so they can float in the air like zones, so you can use a volcano as a stockpile. Stockpiles allow for quality-of-stuff, and can be set to take from other piles...

Stockpiles behaving like zones is a good idea in general, come to think of it. It makes a lot more sense. And having a good idea usually means someone else already thought of it and Footkerchief is on his way to point that and the downsides-why-it-isn't-implemented-yet out to me

[Rose]

Yes, but what I mean is that making bolts and cloth go into the magma, while stones go to your workshops goes against what dumping grounds are for.

[Siquo]

... maybe a stupid question: what ARE they for?

[Mr S]

Dumping Zone was originally supposed to be for garbage.  Using it for quantum stockpiling is really useful a common practice a bit of an exploit.

Oh, and if you designate the Dump as a tile at the rim of the volcano, chasm (I know, not the same anymore), deep pit, cliff face, etc. Dorfs will gladly throw the trash over the edge into the void beneath.

[Siquo]

One mans' garbage is anothers' treasure (Or in other words: "garbage" is a relative term). Being able to "autodump" based on criteria such as the stockpiles have would be nice. A possibility to do what Rinin_Rus wants is to have a custom "Garbage" stockpile, and manually d-b-dump that entire pile once in a while...

No, my point is that "stockpiles" make no sense. It's something, yet it's nothing. It can stop fires, but is otherwise invisible and intangible. It could be like a tarp on the floor to keep stuff from getting dirty, but everything else in DF has to be built, and needs material. It's actually just a zone, but I guess its implementation predates zones and, because they just work, it hasn't changed much over time.

[NW_Kohaku]

Oh, a quick response.  Thanks for tamping down on speculation, Toady!

If we are moving towards dumping of liquids, will other cart contents be the same?  Can this occur mechanically/automatically (something built on the track is designed to tip cart bins over and dump the contents out when the cart rolls by) or are you leaning towards manual dumping only?

I'd like to allow automatic dumping of any object.  Quantum stockpiling is exacerbated by this, but I'm not really bothered by that at this stage of the game.

Well, that makes me giddy.

As part of the flying minecart physics, did you decide on a tile size?

Regarding rubble, I'm sure people that voted for hauling are all over the place, but it seems like it would create the exact problem I'm supposed to be fixing.  I don't think it would be fun to have to devote a lot of dwarves/infrastructure/anything to building a gigantic useless mound the same size as your fortress every time you play.  The current stone doesn't drop everywhere and it has uses.  I'm not sure what the rubble is supposed to be adding to the game.

That, not so much. 

Realism aside, I'd say that rubble adds the same thing that cave-ins add - something to make mining less easy.  We don't ask what HFS adds to the game, or say that sieges are just for collecting goblinite; Adding problems for the player to solve is what the game is for, and what makes it Fun. 

Dwarves that vaporize stone as fast as they can walk and have no chance of cave-ins make mining easy, and hence, boring.  You can designate half the embark for excavation straight from the get-go and not really ever think about it.  Only the chance of hitting caverns or fluids really slows people down. 

Using rubble as a sort of anthill logistics problem where you have to dispose of all the mass you subtract isn't an ideal solution, but it's at least something.

[Mr S]

And I still designate mining as though it needed interior supports.  A self-imposed limitation under the current cave-in mechanics, but I like it for play style.

[CodexDraco]

I would vote for quarry mode. I like building stuff of a single color so I wait until my miners are legendary before mining all the microline otherwise I might run out before I'm done with the project.

[hermes]

No, my point is that "stockpiles" make no sense. It's something, yet it's nothing. It can stop fires, but is otherwise invisible and intangible. It could be like a tarp on the floor to keep stuff from getting dirty, but everything else in DF has to be built, and needs material. It's actually just a zone, but I guess its implementation predates zones and, because they just work, it hasn't changed much over time.

This I like the sound of.  IIRC there has been a small movement calling for everything zoneable (rooms , workshops etc. ) to be brought into an improved zoning menu.  Seems like Toady is leaning in that direction since hospitals were introduced, but while the current system works I guess it might not change for a while.  Perhaps when taverns get tackled?

Oh, a quick response.  Thanks for tamping down on speculation, Toady!

+1 for pipe smoking metaphor 

I'd like to allow automatic dumping of any object.  Quantum stockpiling is exacerbated by this, but I'm not really bothered by that at this stage of the game.

Well, that makes me giddy.

...

That, not so much. 

This seems like a tough call.  Keeping out rubble is good IMO, but, yeah, mining doesn't have any drawbacks or dangers.  The current overhaul sounds like a great logistical addition, so I agree with not adding even more things to manage in that respect.  But what you say, Kohaku, about a structural or environmental challenge would be good.  More things to manage, but in a different facet of the mining experience.

[Geb]

To resolve the problem of megaprojects needing stones, how about tweaking the make blocks reaction?

One boulder makes four blocks.

This also means there's actually a point to making block walls instead of rough stone walls.

[Siquo]

To resolve the problem of megaprojects needing stones, how about tweaking the make blocks reaction?

One boulder makes four blocks.

This is actually a really good idea, FPS wise less stone is better, but having the same "quarry" output as you have now wouldn't slow fort-building or rare-color-stone collecting down as much, without having to create a new "quarry" dig action.

[Mel_Vixen]

I would vote for rubble or to keep the old mechanics. I like the idea of using smaller "objects" for many crafts but in the way cloth/thread is handled right now. Usage by volume could work nicely with boulders and rubble if rubble gets priority over boulders (which get broken into a volume of rubble) and if certain objects like blocks can only be made from boulders. but that gets suggestiony.


Auto-dumping minecarts sound reasonable, the mechanics behind that are trivial form the once i have seen. Althought i could see 2 types of minecarts, the basic one and one hat needs an additional mechanism to get auto-dump. I refer to carts like this or this that are supendedon on an axle.

[Sphalerite]

Is making boulders give multiple bars of metal going to be a raw-level change or a hard-code change?  Either way, are the mining changes going to create any issues with save games from earlier versions?  If a player with a 34.07 fortress upgrades to whatever the new version ends up being, will ore boulders that have already been mined out now give multiple bars of metal, or still just one?