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[Naryar]

So how will falling in a minecart be implemented? Can a dwarf survive a 7 z-level fall unharmed because he was in a minecart ?

By that I obviously mean dwarven minecart paratrooper marksdwarves.

[NW_Kohaku]

By the way, how do you feel about that last line, fort retirement and/or temporary dwarf control? I paid attention to most recent development but might have missed some long term goals.

In addition to what Footkerchief posted, this is already somewhat possible due to DFHack.  You can memory hack the game into switching from Fortress Mode directly into Adventurer Mode and back again.

I'm not quite sure of the full effect of this, however, as I haven't actually tried doing it, but it's possible.

[NW_Kohaku]

So how will falling in a minecart be implemented? Can a dwarf survive a 7 z-level fall unharmed because he was in a minecart ?

By that I obviously mean dwarven minecart paratrooper marksdwarves.

As a followup,

Does landing on a ramp mitigate fall damage or decrease the likelihood of projecting cart contents everywhere?  Can we make Dwarven Evel Knievel jumps, where launching from a ramp and landing on a ramp is a perfectly smooth landing and you can just keep going?

I need to start making a !!Lignite Hoop!! to put between ramps, and sticking out of a shark pool.


It would also give us the ability to segregate "cart subway" from regular walking hallways for dwarven safety purposes.  Launch a cart from a hallway into a carts-only zone that is inaccessible to normal walkers before leaping another ditch to get back to the walkable areas for their stops. 

[Cruxador]

So how will falling in a minecart be implemented? Can a dwarf survive a 7 z-level fall unharmed because he was in a minecart ?

By that I obviously mean dwarven minecart paratrooper marksdwarves.

As a followup,

Does landing on a ramp mitigate fall damage or decrease the likelihood of projecting cart contents everywhere?  Can we make Dwarven Evel Knievel jumps, where launching from a ramp and landing on a ramp is a perfectly smooth landing and you can just keep going?

I need to start making a !!Lignite Hoop!! to put between ramps, and sticking out of a shark pool.

He's said before that landing on a track always works. From that we can infer that it's probably fairly safe, although how much is not yet known.

It would also give us the ability to segregate "cart subway" from regular walking hallways for dwarven safety purposes.  Launch a cart from a hallway into a carts-only zone that is inaccessible to normal walkers before leaping another ditch to get back to the walkable areas for their stops.

You coulkd also just, you know, route the cart rails through different z-levels.

[Deon]

Hell yeah, adventure rollercoaster fortresses!

[Stoup]

By the way, how do you feel about that last line, fort retirement and/or temporary dwarf control? I paid attention to most recent development but might have missed some long term goals.

In addition to what Footkerchief posted, this is already somewhat possible due to DFHack.  You can memory hack the game into switching from Fortress Mode directly into Adventurer Mode and back again.

I'm not quite sure of the full effect of this, however, as I haven't actually tried doing it, but it's possible.

I have done precisely this with one of my past fortresses, it causes a loyalty cascade of total proportions. While you could work with it that way, every time you entered the fort the populous would inevitably slaughter itself... Which really doesn't leave it too much better than abandoning, save for the lack of item scattering.

[NW_Kohaku]

It would also give us the ability to segregate "cart subway" from regular walking hallways for dwarven safety purposes.  Launch a cart from a hallway into a carts-only zone that is inaccessible to normal walkers before leaping another ditch to get back to the walkable areas for their stops.

You coulkd also just, you know, route the cart rails through different z-levels.

But dwarves can always just path into the cart's tracks.  Even if they are restricted dwarven traffic "dodging" mechanics mean that if they find someone blocking their path, they may step into a detour that involves walking over tracks.  By making a jump to a sector that dwarves can't actually path to without flying, it makes the area perfectly safe, barring mid-track collisions at an intersection.  (Oh, how much Fun we will have learning the benefits of avoiding having intersections at all by just using 3d cart paths that look like someone dropped a bowl of spaghetti into your fortress.)  Low odds mean nothing - any probability greater than zero means it WILL happen.  No matter how lucky you are or how much you load the dice, if you keep throwing the dice, eventually, you will crap out.

Of course, I still want the requirements for ventilation systems, water (for irrigation or brewing) piping, and even sewage disposal systems to eventually come into play, at which point fully-fledged fortresses would be positively DIZZYING arrays of interconnected pipes, rails, and hallways.  I get tingles just imagining.

[Kadzar]

Well, you could just have the entrance to the main rail area only accessible by bridge, and have a floodgate go up behind the cart when the bridge is down. That should effectively block off any potential foot traffic into the railway.

[Elone]

Low odds mean nothing - any probability greater than zero means it WILL happen.  No matter how lucky you are or how much you load the dice, if you keep throwing the dice, eventually, you will crap out.

Of course, I still want the requirements for ventilation systems, water (for irrigation or brewing) piping, and even sewage disposal systems to eventually come into play, at which point fully-fledged fortresses would be positively DIZZYING arrays of interconnected pipes, rails, and hallways.  I get tingles just imagining.

I always used to say this. It doesnt matter if there's 99% chance to win when you strike the 1%. And I'm sure that those neat cart things will happen, and many of them will be amusing, and maybe the ledge example will happen to someone as well, but I find it unusual to by so hyped about that single example. DF is a generator of awesome events afterall, among other stuff. More will happen.

Also, while you wait, help yourself with a serving of 3D pipes screensaver! =P It looks a lot like what you want to see in DF.

Well, you could just have the entrance to the main rail area only accessible by bridge, and have a floodgate go up behind the cart when the bridge is down. That should effectively block off any potential foot traffic into the railway.

We really really need some ingame compact mechanism signal inverters.

[NW_Kohaku]

Also, while you wait, help yourself with a serving of 3D pipes screensaver! =P It looks a lot like what you want to see in DF.

But it's not! Those are just pipes.  Efficiency means nothing in them.  When can build a cartputer, and actually see the actual "data packets" running from one end of a "circuit" to another, and "race conditions" that you have to smooth out in a circuit involves actual racing carts you can follow, it brings out a whole new level of nerd joy. 

We really really need some ingame compact mechanism signal inverters.

What I really, really hope we might get are the ability to have combined-functionality constructions, like those "stops" that have "accelerators" that can be triggered by having a mechanism toggled on and off, like he hinted at adding earlier.  This alone would allow for fully mechanized cart systems. 

A truly ideal situation, however, would allow for a stack of a stop and a pressure plate and an accelerator all in one tile.  This way, the stop will halt a cart and be capable of sending a signal via pressure plate that allows the greater mechanism to understand that a cart is on the stop and ready to go, which can be later sent a "go" signal when the accelerator is powered.

At the minimum, this could allow for "four way stop signs" that have mechanisms to regulate when one cart could go and when others must stop. 

At its best, however, this could allow for carts to behave as "bits" where you just have two stops with accelerators facing one another - launch from one stop to another switches the cart's signal from a "0" to a "1" when it is on a given pressure plate stop. This allows for the replacement of fluid logic entirely.

[FearfulJesuit]

Would it be possible, then, to have "two-way stop signs" that we could construct acting as logic gates?

[QDwarf]

Loops of track with pressure plates could make for some simple precisely timed repeaters. Adding several plates in a row would let you have a series of events occur in rapid succession.

[Cruxador]

@NW_Kohaku: I seedon't your point, but you don't need a fancy ramp setup for that. Just have the cart drop one z off a small cliff.
Also, you're wrong about the irrelevance of low odds. Low odds means that it will happen infrequently and thus dwarven deaths will remain below an acceptable threshold.

Regarding combined functionality constructions and stacking, I don't think that's entirely necessary for any partivular purpose, since you can use directional speed addition from the rollers to direct carts into and out of holding loops. If a stop could provide directional momentum on mechanical trigger, that would make things easier. But stacking would mostly just reduce space needed. Plus it doesn't make much sense from an in-universe logical perspective.

[NW_Kohaku]

Also, you're wrong about the irrelevance of low odds. Low odds means that it will happen infrequently and thus dwarven deaths will remain below an acceptable threshold.

That's just another way to say "It's OK to be less than perfect". 

NEVAR! 

You aren't truly playing Dwarf Fortress until you have pathologically installed a countermeasure to every conceivable occurance as well as forged it all within a perfectly symmetric geometric fractal fortress.  Floors will be paved or entire layers obsidian cast for symmetry!  Only then will you "finish" a fortress.

EDIT: More seriously, though, I prefer running my forts in the background while I do other things.  I value automation above all else.  I want to fuss for days over getting every minor detail right to set up a system that works without me having to constantly correct it, and then never have to touch that system again because it works. 

If you are surprised by anything in DF, you have not done enough Science yet.  Everything is foreseeable, and every problem can be forestalled.

Casualties of any form but old age are a sign of failure to predict and plan.

Regarding combined functionality constructions and stacking, I don't think that's entirely necessary for any partivular purpose, since you can use directional speed addition from the rollers to direct carts into and out of holding loops. If a stop could provide directional momentum on mechanical trigger, that would make things easier. But stacking would mostly just reduce space needed. Plus it doesn't make much sense from an in-universe logical perspective.

It's as logical as a stop and accelerator could be in the first place to combine the two.  It simply means the stop retracts, and the accelerator starts up.  Alternately, you could use the same gears/wheels used in the accelerator as the stop, as well, by just "shifting gears" from one in a high-friction stopping gear to switching over to a powered gear that pushes a cart along.

EDIT: Alternately, an unpowered accelerator could simply provide a drag that makes it functionally the same thing as a stop, and that solves both problems.  No power - stops cart.  Power - pushes cart along.  You just need to create a cart course that requires no manual stops or starts. 

Powered accelerator stops are also nearly mandatory for full automated cart tracks, as they allow you to push a cart without having a dwarf present at all.  Otherwise, you have to have a dwarf actually sitting there pushing them.  Who wants that? It's like the difference between setting up your traps on a repeater or asking a dwarf to try to sit in a control room and pull all your levers constantly - they take breaks and aren't always responsive.  Full automation means full reliability, and enables perfection. 

[Cruxador]

EDIT: More seriously, though, I prefer running my forts in the background while I do other things.  I value automation above all else.  I want to fuss for days over getting every minor detail right to set up a system that works without me having to constantly correct it, and then never have to touch that system again because it works.

That's more or less the way I play as well, but I don't mind losing a dwarf here and there, and I do like dealing with the odd problems that can sometimes result from things I don't think through all the way.

If you are surprised by anything in DF, you have not done enough Science yet.  Everything is foreseeable, and every problem can be forestalled.

I intentionally distance myself from the proceedings so that I can still be surprised. Besides when dealing with new systems, at least.

Casualties of any form but old age are a sign of failure to predict and plan.

Regarding combined functionality constructions and stacking, I don't think that's entirely necessary for any partivular purpose, since you can use directional speed addition from the rollers to direct carts into and out of holding loops. If a stop could provide directional momentum on mechanical trigger, that would make things easier. But stacking would mostly just reduce space needed. Plus it doesn't make much sense from an in-universe logical perspective.

It's as logical as a stop and accelerator could be in the first place to combine the two.  It simply means the stop retracts, and the accelerator starts up.  Alternately, you could use the same gears/wheels used in the accelerator as the stop, as well, by just "shifting gears" from one in a high-friction stopping gear to switching over to a powered gear that pushes a cart along.

EDIT: Alternately, an unpowered accelerator could simply provide a drag that makes it functionally the same thing as a stop, and that solves both problems.  No power - stops cart.  Power - pushes cart along.  You just need to create a cart course that requires no manual stops or starts.

Sure, there's logical ways for this stuff. I meant being able to stack many mechanisms on one tile wasn't realistic.

Powered accelerator stops are also nearly mandatory for full automated cart tracks, as they allow you to push a cart without having a dwarf present at all.  Otherwise, you have to have a dwarf actually sitting there pushing them.  Who wants that? It's like the difference between setting up your traps on a repeater or asking a dwarf to try to sit in a control room and pull all your levers constantly - they take breaks and aren't always responsive.  Full automation means full reliability, and enables perfection.

Perfection is an admirable (albeit ultimately unattainable) goal in reality, but in games it tends to eliminate fun.