Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Naryar]

I would like to see the grazer bugs being fixed, most notably elephants being untameable.

[Neonivek]

I would like to see the grazer bugs being fixed, most notably elephants being untameable.

Honestly Grazers make herbivours not worth even having in a fort.

[Chthonic]

Sheep are pretty awesome, if you have a little space aboveground.

[PTTG??]

Toady, what do the tags in the text raws actually mean? In particulary I'm wondering about how [NO_ART_NAME] is different from [NAME]. Are there any tags that might work that haven't been tested or used by default?

Really late, but I'm fairly sure NO_ART_NAME means the name can't contain "the", "a", "an", etc. (articles in the English language).

Awesome, thanks. I think you're right, I was having some trouble with extra "the"s and that clears that up.

[NW_Kohaku]

I've been involved in (and planning to rewrite an old) suggestion threads recently that related to personalities, which in turn means they would be caught up in the overall personality rewrites.

When searching for information on the personality rewrites, however, most recent information that can be gleaned on what they will entail has been rather oblique, and oftentimes referenced the likes of Interactions and usage hints, which imply that the personality rewrites will go beyond merely making personalities merely more useful for determining aspects of worldgen history or just fortress mode criminal dwarves, and into the realm of overtly shaping how the AI decides to use all their abilities at their disposal in the likes of Adventurer Mode and Fortress Mode.

Spoiler: Most informative quotes I could dig up, but I am looking for more in-game AI information than this (click to show/hide)

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=60554.msg1377634#msg1377634

Personalities come up in world gen, but they are kind of lacking, because the modern system is so non-judgmental, he he he.  There isn't much of any intra-entity strife, so they aren't used for that anyway.  So we're going to end up augmenting it with additional goals and "virtue/vice"-type stuff, and that should let us have people work out their ambitions in a consistent way, and then we should have more meat for the succession/schism stuff.  I'm not sure about the future of the current personality facets.  They are useful for things, but not so much for this.  Freeing up some of the boring professions for entity pop people should also give us more room for personal ambition among the realized people (or appropriate people can be elevated from entity pops if they don't arise -- it's somewhat disappointing not to trace everybody back all the way to the beginning, but it's the only reasonable way at this point).

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=60554.msg1943773#msg1943773

I tried to find a DF Talk quote too, but the one I was thinking of might be in the one I still have to edit, so I'm confused.  In any case, yeah, I think the current facets I've got are too wishy-washy.  Instead of trying to use them as the basic axes and figuring out how something like "greed" might arise from them, it seems like using a new set which isn't focused on being non-judgmental will be more efficient.  I'm not going over to a yes/no archetype/quirk/trait system.  This will definitely include the foundations for crime, although initially we're thinking less about criminal dwarves and more about villains and their motivations in general for the army arc.  My specific goal at first is just to capture a wider breadth of dispositions, since I had trouble writing world gen AI with the current facets.  From there, I think adding personality effects to the game should be easier.  I think goals and dreams are also a part of this.  The "needs" rewrite is related to that, but we're still working that out.

So that kind of gets to an additional part of the overall personality rewrite which would be an emotion system. In adventure mode emotions are a tricky thing because you really don't want to get too far ahead of yourself there, getting into the players head, whereas if it's just doing some helpful bookkeeping for you with your favourite hobbies and stuff, that's actually a really good thing, but if it's actually trying to force you one way or another based on what it thinks you should be feeling, that's quite strange. But once you get to the other guys then emotions are a great thing. Right now we just have this slow descent into unhappiness and despair and psychotic breaks for the poor dwarves, and that sucks. They should be able to just snap, throw a tantrum, come back and be the happiest little dwarf that they could be, having worked out their issues, but it's kind of strange now how it's only long term despair and so on being tracked, rather than short term events.

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=84398.msg2922258#msg2922258

I see that the secret-based interactions have a hint as to what would motivate units to search them out in worldgen. Are there any others besides a fear of dying (as in necromancers) and if so, what are they?
Relatedly, for vampire- and werewolf-style divine-punishment thingies, are there any hint tags besides MAJOR_CURSE and, if so, what do they do?

Nah, that's it for goals.  It's just a little thing that I needed to throttle things before the personality rewrite.  The hints that I've needed so far are MAJOR_CURSE, ATTACK, GREETING, CLEAN_SELF and CLEAN_FRIEND.  There aren't any beneficial vanilla interactions, but as I mentioned in the last answer I could throw in a kind of beneficial catch-all until I have time to work further on magic AI.  It would be cool if there could just be a hint like "AS_NEEDED" or something that'll let it analyze the effects for beneficial/harmful effects or something, but I'm not sure what's going to work out.  The more versatile the effects are, the harder it is for the computer to analyze them.

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=84398.msg2629820;topicseen#msg2629820

As the life of people becomes more complicated, this will be more natural, but right now they don't have lives.  Once they have life goals etc. from the personality rewrite, we'll be at the starting point of one of our overarching conceptual goals, which is to allow you to pick out a person or family and help them indefinitely, as a sort of proof-of-dynamic-world thing, even if it is a strange thing to do.  That still wouldn't necessarily get at the mundane side of life, but it would be related.

Can you give us some idea of how extensive the personality rewrites will be? (As in, how many currently existing systems outside worldgen will be impacted?) 

Basically, how much more complex would the average dwarf or human villager's "brain" be in actual gameplay after this?  Does this stop with things like "My student guidance counselor said my personality test results came back, and my ideal career is as a brigand because I love hurting people and stealing stuff, with a Life Goal of killing 3 or 4 adventurers" and just replace the 30 personality things with more "judgmental" traits, or does it go into breaking down/discarding the current happiness and preferences and the AI systems where dwarves choose what to do at a given moment and rebuilding them with more "moving parts" in action choice? 

Will this include or directly lead to changes in the way you converse with others in Adventurer Mode?  (Personality/mood changing how they talk?)

When trying to go into these discussions, it's best to squirrel away as much information on where you (Toady) are leaning on these issues already.  It's hard to talk about personalities or related systems when you know the ground is going to be shifting under your feet, but you aren't sure how far it will shift.

[eux0r]

I've been involved in (and planning to rewrite an old) suggestion threads recently that related to personalities, which in turn means they would be caught up in the overall personality rewrites.

-snip-

youre using the plural there? can you, for the sake of convenience, give us a link-list to those suggestions?

[NW_Kohaku]

youre using the plural there? can you, for the sake of convenience, give us a link-list to those suggestions?

I don't see why that's important, but some of the ones from the last month or so...

Adventurer Personality Profiling
DF, social classes, emergent behaviors, and the personality rewrites
Make vampires feed on the weak (fortress mode) (Specifically, personality-based targetting of types of dwarves.)
Boredom factor
Nobles and their Demands (Specifically, making preferences more "sane")
Regional Effects for Good/Savage Biomes. (includes good biomes altering personality)
Good regions being painfully good (Rambling topic, but again involves good regions changing personalities)
Suggestions for dwarf psychology (Old, but just got revived.)

And the old one of mine I wanted to rewrite was Class Warfare, which involved more types of "happiness", as well.  (My rewrites were going to be more a factor of the internal fortress economics issues, however...)

[Cobaldunderpants]

I think 0.34.06 is absolutely awesome!

I wanted to ask, and I don't mean to come off as ungrateful, just curious: Do you have any plans to allow more exotics to reproduce like GCS or GDS?

I know there are mods that can allow that, but if its vanilla it feels so much more...right. I'm sure you got alot on your plate. I'm just wondering if its under consideration at all for the future.

[Dae]

So um, guys I currently don't have much time to play DF, so I'd like to have your opinion : was this round of bugfixing as good as intended ? I know clothing bugs have bothered people for a loong time, and the reintroduction of bad thought about clothes sounds good, but how is it really ? Was it really a before/after moment ?

That MIGHT put fortress mode back near the top of my priorities...
EDIT: I'm wondering if I shouldn't open an other thread with that. I don't think it'll go into a very long discussion, but that really depends on people... I hope it won't start another derail or flame war.

[Rose]

This update is like warm apple pie.

[Elone]

Well I expected my fps to go up... It didnt. Back to quitting my each fort on year 3 to lag death.

[JimiD]

I don't know why FPS would go up, all the clothes are still in the game.  Just being worn now.

[thvaz]

Played a fortress up to year 5 (when it was ravaged by the biggest tantrum spiral I ever saw) with 180 dwarves at max, embarx 4X4, and the fps never went below 99. I am very happy with perfomance in fortress mode.

[Elone]

Some !!science!! topics which I have read have suggested that dorfs check for claimed clothing every frame, and/or at least the dorfs who lost a bodypart, keep seeking clothing for that bodypart indefinitely (very often). In a way I was hoping that this was THE culprit to the fps decay, and that it's finally over. However the decay still continues for me.

[JimiD]

The release notes for the 34.06 state that they no longer obsess about clothes for lost limbs.