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[EmeraldWind]

I am not crying over the loss of the Dungeon Master.

I rarely hear people justify him in ways that arn't "He was glitched and that was funny" and "But he was there before".

Dungeon Master is a cool name for a noble though. And as a couple people said he doesn't need to serve the same purpose.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I do like the ideas of the DM being a Chief Medical Dwarf type noble, giving him priority over tougher training. As well as the idea about being able to write books that could improve training knowledge for creatures (which could then be traded to improve the knowledge on the civ level).

I really like the potential of the civ/fort knowledge.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I thought of a lot of neat ways it could be used in conjunction with other systems, particularly metal smelting and forging as well as book writing and knowledge trade. Though the idea of civ knowledge effecting quality in the case of metal-smithing, makes me wonder if quality levels need to be redefined. The civ/fort knowledge could also be used as I mentioned earlier to establish a sort of culture between civs. If this ended up being the case the civ you pick as your home civ might become more important in the development of your fort. Farming could also use a similar knowledge-base for the different crops as well.

I'm just really interested as the directions this feature could go in. It is an exciting idea.

[Livonya]

I just think it is cool to have government positions to appoint.

I think all people miss is the title and position.

Personally, I would like to appoint all sorts of guild/service masters.

Dungeon Master - handles prisoners, torture, and the containment of wild monsters to fight in my arena

Master of Secrets - handles security, spying on foreign lands, perhaps even the rescuing of stolen children

Master of Arms - handles military security and all issues involving training

Master of Coins - handles your budget once the economy kicks back in

[Shinotsa]

I'm not so sure about adding more nobles until the ones we already have do enough work. I liked the idea of cures for common illnesses such as rains/mists. Perhaps the CMD, with his generally large amount of free time, could sit at his desk or alchemy workshop with some whip weed, plump helmets, and a barrel of blood/ichor to concoct a cure for something he's diagnosed more than three times. Then the civ could learn to combat it. Granted this will be much more useful once we get disease and specific infections in the game.

[Rhenaya]

will the new pet stuff also include [MOUNT] tags and mount training for fort mode? :x

[Caldfir]

will the new pet stuff also include [MOUNT] tags and mount training for fort mode? :x

mounted combat is scheduled for a rewrite in release 7 of the caravan arc

The ordering is subject to change, but mount use is planned as a semi-major rewrite so it is unlikely to be bundled with pet training fixes.

[isitanos]

Experimenting with animal training is seriously cool (especially if our fortress can acquire/write books about it, or even hire elven teachers ).

However I'm not too happy that Toady seems to be already succumbing to featuritis, after one full year of it. Some mods like Masterwork already had a functioning Dungeon Master, so if he only wanted to improve the game's playability he would've just put back the DM, fix all the critical bugs and annoyances, and THEN implement this new feature.

If it's the only way he can stay motivated... well, it's his game after all, but I fear I'll never really be able to play this game.

[Kogut]

IMHO fixing bugs by creating new features is a better than fixing bugs or adding new features. Signed by Kogut, the Bugfixes apostle of Bay12forum.

[isitanos]

IMHO fixing bugs by creating new features is a better than fixing bugs or adding new features. Signed by Kogut, the Bugfixes apostle of Bay12forum.

At least from a programming point of view, it's a stupid way of approaching things, because those new features inevitably bring bugs themselves. It's a neverending spiral of doom that everybody who has programmed is familiar with.


To be fair, I'm asking for new features myself during this bugfix period, but those are specifically to fix annoyances such as dwarves locking themselves up or blocking their way to designated constructions if they could just do that construction first. Not cool fluff like Toady just added.

[monk12]

The bug is that exotics can't be tamed- the fix is making them able to be tamed. Rather than having that be through the outdated "unlock features with your nobles" model which hasn't really been in the game since 40d, it is being fixed with a new flexible system that fits the game as it is, not as it was.

I heartily endorse this event or product.

[isitanos]

"new flexible system" is a synonym for "bugs we'll be experiencing two years from now". Unless by some miracle Toady keeps this system small in scope.

-- isitanos cancels read thread: fanboys have too little foresight --

[Kogut]

IMHO fixing bugs by creating new features is a better than fixing bugs or adding new features. Signed by Kogut, the Bugfixes apostle of Bay12forum.

At least from a programming point of view, it's a stupid way of approaching things, because those new features inevitably bring bugs themselves. It's a neverending spiral of doom that everybody who has programmed is familiar with.

Yeah, I think that DF need about 2 years of non-stop bugfixing, but even sometimes bugged taming is a better than completely broken taming.

[thvaz]

"new flexible system" is a synonym for "bugs we'll be experiencing two years from now". Unless by some miracle Toady keeps this system small in scope.

-- isitanos cancels read thread: fanboys have too little foresight --

Every other post about bugs people were complaining about the god damn Dungeon Master, Toady hears their claims and now there is people complaining about the new system without the god damn Dungeon Master or about featuritis.

It just proves that if it is impossible to please everyone, why bother at all?

[monk12]

Well yeah, pretty much every feature is going to be buggy in a few years. The game is a work in progress, so even if a given feature is functioning as intended in the final product (doubtful for many of the systems currently in place) it will become buggy as all the other systems it interacts with update. It's a fact of life for an actively developed game, especially one as incomplete as DF.

Although if you're just going to trivialize and dismiss counterarguments out of hand, then yeah this discussion can be done. We really shouldn't be cluttering this thread with argument to begin with, so I apologize for that.

[Dae]

"new flexible system" is a synonym for "bugs we'll be experiencing two years from now". Unless by some miracle Toady keeps this system small in scope.

-- isitanos cancels read thread: fanboys have too little foresight --

Considering bugfixes ALSO introduces more bugs, I'd rather have them being worth it.
As long as a project is ongoing, there will be bugs. Deal with it.

[Kogut]

"new flexible system" is a synonym for "bugs we'll be experiencing two years from now". Unless by some miracle Toady keeps this system small in scope.

-- isitanos cancels read thread: fanboys have too little foresight --

Every other post about bugs people were complaining about the god damn Dungeon Master, Toady hears their claims and now there is people complaining about the new system without the god damn Dungeon Master or about featuritis.

It just proves that if it is impossible to please everyone, why bother at all?

Exactly, it is getting ridiculous. I wait for "Even bugfixing is wrong because it may create more bugs" and "bugfixing is bad because it reduces amount of <WTF it is hilarious> reactions".