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[gimli]

People aren't telling you to chill out because they think each of your statements is wrong.  It's because your true/accurate/insightful points are surrounded by hysteria.

In short, don't play DF or donate to Bay 12 if doing so, on the balance, gives you negative feelings.

Absolutely. All my respect goes to Toady for creating an amazing game like this, but to be honest I won't donate a single penny 'til I don't see real fortress mode updates, because why should I? It's basically the same since years. You don't pay for an MMO if it's not updated for 2 years. I guess it's fair like that, isn't it?..as for your hysteria "wording", I don't see any hysteria here. Kohaku is right in many points actally.
Anyway this speaks for itself:

08/10/2006 Released Dwarf Fortress 0.21.93.19b
10/29/2007 Released Dwarf Fortress 0.27.169.32a
09/06/2008 Released Dwarf Fortress 0.28.181.40d
04/01/2010 Released Dwarf Fortress 0.31.01 [Enhanced Fortress mode after 40d]
02/14/2012 Released Dwarf Fortress 0.34.01 [Almost no fortress mode related additions]
??/??/201? Future "major" release with who knows what additions

[Immacolata]

But the idea is, you make such a big deal out of you not donating another penny before this or that, bla de bla. Whats wrong with you? Why does that concern me? I discovered DF 2010 (31.xx), played it for hours, donated $20 and received a drawing. I was happy. Thanks Toady One, take my money for the good thing you did. I had fun, so much fun.

Now .34 is released. Still didn't install it, waiting for the "old bug" fixes. If then I find it fun, Ill probably donate again. Thanks Toady One, take my money, keep doing your stuff I hope.
If I am not having fun, well, I won't. Simple as that. Except I wont make a big fuss over it here and spoil everyones pot over it.

[thvaz]

People should donate for the fun they had, not for the fun they hope to have.

[gimli]

But the idea is, you make such a big deal out of you not donating another penny before this or that, bla de bla. Whats wrong with you? Why does that concern me? I discovered DF 2010 (31.xx), played it for hours, donated $20 and received a drawing. I was happy. Thanks Toady One, take my money for the good thing you did. I had fun, so much fun.

Now .34 is released. Still didn't install it, waiting for the "old bug" fixes. If then I find it fun, Ill probably donate again. Thanks Toady One, take my money, keep doing your stuff I hope.
If I am not having fun, well, I won't. Simple as that. Except I wont make a big fuss over it here and spoil everyones pot over it.

We are having a civilized discussion here with regard to the development of the game. [Even tho, everybody knows that Toady doesn't care about these things.]

[gimli]

People should donate for the fun they had, not for the fun they hope to have.

Agreed and this is what I was saying in my post as well, however a small correction: People should donate for the fun they have. I donated back in time when I had fun playing the game. Now I don't donate because I don't have fun while playing DF since it's still the old game basically [fortress mode] and I got bored with it. I won't donate just because one day a decent version might get released if everything goes right and nothing will force Toady to stop developing the game.
 

[Footkerchief]

Agreed and this is what I was saying in my post as well, however a small correction: People should donate for the fun they have. I donated back in time when I had fun playing the game. Now I don't donate because I don't have fun while playing DF since it's still the old game basically [fortress mode] and I got bored with it. I won't donate just because one day a decent version might get released if everything goes right and nothing will force Toady to stop developing the game.

And that's all totally reasonable.  What's unreasonable is for (other) people to claim their donations give them the right to control development.

[Neonivek]

Mind you we already have an example of the absolute extreme of entitlement anyhow. Which I am not sure if it falls on annoying or hillarious. I'd link you but I am not sure if it would be in good taste.

Anyhow you can criticise Dwarf Fortress like mad, we even had a whole thread at one time created JUST for what people disliked about the game (MIND YOU! A lot of people went on that thread just to defend Dwarf Fortress).

The difference is between criticising what Dwarf Fortress is doing wrong within its own scope, and complaining about what Dwarf Fortress will never be or complaining simply that it is unfinished.

[Shinotsa]

Welp, curiosity is getting the better of me so it's time to slap this train back on the rails:

Will the improvements to mineral veins and the addition of mine maps have a major effect on worldgen in the number of metal items made? Will that then translate into a larger number of weapon/armor shops and a larger number of metal goods at the market? Will towns closer to major mines have more blacksmiths, miners, furnace operators, and shops containing the products of these jobs? Will there be warehouses full of iron ore/bars/goods in mining towns, or does worldgen space out items through trade too much to see that?

To occupy everyone else: Since the next release is a little ambiguous, what are you looking for from it and to what extent? I know the inn rewrite is going to include people in towns going to a tavern and drunks probably hanging around there more often, but do you think we'll have people praying at temples and farming in their fields during the day with seeds of whip vine and rope reed in their pockets? Or do you think it'll be more of a "meeting hall" framework that's set up just around the well or town square during the day?

Edit: Emphasis

[MaskedMiner]

I find complaining annoying because it is Toady's project  If I were painting a painting and everyone were telling me what to do, I would become annoyed.

[Neonivek]

I find complaining annoying because it is Toady's project  If I were painting a painting and everyone were telling me what to do, I would become annoyed.

Well if you would just paint it the way I wanted it. There wouldn't be a problem would there?

[monk12]

I find complaining annoying because it is Toady's project  If I were painting a painting and everyone were telling me what to do, I would become annoyed.

Pretty much, with the extension that if I were painting a terrible painting, and the guy next to me was making this amazing thing, and people kept complaining about his, I would be equally if not more annoyed than if they had been complaining about my thing.

And now I feel bad because I've perpetuated the cycle. When will I learn?



Re: Next Release- On the face of it, it doesn't seem overly exciting apart from the inherent appeal of seeing how deep the simulation goes (I enjoy the excessive, unnecessary detail myself,) but then again before .34 I thought the Regional material emissions whatever wasn't going to be exciting, and it has turned out to be my favorite part of Fort mode. Privately, I'm hoping the Personality Rewrite that has been rumored to be moving up the list somehow makes it all the way to Release 2, since that's supposed to make personalities matter more and be less inscrutable. If I'm just taking each release at face value, I think I'm more excited for Release 3 (Taverns/Hirelings/Manors) since I expect that will make Adventure Mode more enjoyable by roughly the same factor this release did.

[thvaz]

Re: Next Release- On the face of it, it doesn't seem overly exciting apart from the inherent appeal of seeing how deep the simulation goes (I enjoy the excessive, unnecessary detail myself,) but then again before .34 I thought the Regional material emissions whatever wasn't going to be exciting, and it has turned out to be my favorite part of Fort mode. Privately, I'm hoping the Personality Rewrite that has been rumored to be moving up the list somehow makes it all the way to Release 2, since that's supposed to make personalities matter more and be less inscrutable. If I'm just taking each release at face value, I think I'm more excited for Release 3 (Taverns/Hirelings/Manors) since I expect that will make Adventure Mode more enjoyable by roughly the same factor this release did.

To be honest I hope personality release don't make Release 2 yet. As every rewrite Toady made, I fear it will take a long time to finish. Next release sounds simple enough that we could see a release after 4-6 months, even with a little (expected) sidetracking.

[monk12]

I don't blame you, since I suspect you're right. Apart from my inherent liking of the Personality Rewrite for its own sake, I'd like to see it then because that release is otherwise light on interesting features to play around with. I know the reason he was thinking of moving it up was that it would make more sense for it to be done before Release 5, so that when he's writing the AI to make worldgen-type decisions during play he can just incorporate the Personality stuff right away instead of rewriting that aspect again 3 releases down the road.

I think what's going to happen is that either we'll have another long wait as the Personality stuff is tacked on to an existing Release, or the Personality stuff will replace something. Releases 3 and 4 sound pretty awesome to me, so if something is going to get bumped I'd rather it be Release 2.

Hopefully I'm just grossly overestimating the amount of work that will be required by the Personality Rewrite (or any of those other Release items,) but I suppose we'll see.

[Untelligent]

Do you expect random-material minerals to show up in Release 2?


I've voiced my suspicions on that subject once or twice but I don't think I've asked that question outright (or seen somebody else ask it).

[darkflagrance]

To be fair to Toady, despite all the people claiming that he ignored Fortress Mode this time around, we've seen quite a few changes to several old issues in Fortress Mode even ignoring the new undead features, animals, and modding potential.

The ones I can remember off the top of my head are:

Unit screen division
Ramped bodies of water
Trading changes
Wagons
Several crashing and interface issues
Dwarf pathfinding when items are lost (why did he fix this it was fine the way it was grrr)
Armor now using the right amount of bars
Economic stones (I also wish he had ignored this bug )
Workshop automation
Melting magma-safe materials

If you want more, just check the change list.

I like it when people bring up constructive criticism, because I have plenty of my own to share. But I hate it when they are wrong.