Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Mr S]

I'm surprised that neither of the replies mentioned:  Pull the F-ing LEVER!!!!!!1!!oooooooone!1!2

[mastahcheese]

I'm surprised that neither of the replies mentioned:  Pull the F-ing LEVER!!!!!!1!!oooooooone!1!2

Yes, this should be the highest priority.

[darkflagrance]

If I am reading the implications of the dev log correctly, are we looking at a replacement of the omniscient dwarven hivemind with something that tracks jobs based on knowledge? If so I fear we will be stuck with a broken fortress mode for quite a long time after the release as the new systems are inplemented/bugtested.

[Kobold6]

Have you considered using OpenMP to easily add threading to DF?

[O11O1]

Have you considered using OpenMP to easily add threading to DF?

I think the game already uses at least a little bit of OMP to multi thread, when I run DF and look at my CPU usage, four of my eight cores are being used in about equal amounts. It -is- possible that my system is simply bouncing computations between them so fast I don't notice a drop in the lines, but I think it's at least running some basic loops in parallel.

[Telgin]

Have you considered using OpenMP to easily add threading to DF?

I think the game already uses at least a little bit of OMP to multi thread, when I run DF and look at my CPU usage, four of my eight cores are being used in about equal amounts. It -is- possible that my system is simply bouncing computations between them so fast I don't notice a drop in the lines, but I think it's at least running some basic loops in parallel.

It's because the OS is scheduling it on different cores as you mention.  None of the game's main logic is run in parallel (though the graphics are handled by a separate thread, but this has negligible performance impact).

Have you considered using OpenMP to easily add threading to DF?

Toady has stated that he doesn't know of any way to get it to work faster in a parallel manner yet.  Parallelizing it will be something that happens a long time from now, if ever.  OpenMP is a good help for parallelization, but I can state from personal experience that it's still not simple at all, even with OpenMP.  Or any other threading library of your choice.  Race conditions are hard enough to debug when you're building an application up from the ground with threading in mind...

If I am reading the implications of the dev log correctly, are we looking at a replacement of the omniscient dwarven hivemind with something that tracks jobs based on knowledge? If so I fear we will be stuck with a broken fortress mode for quite a long time after the release as the new systems are inplemented/bugtested.

My impression was that he was going to implement a better and/or customizable priority scheme shortly after the release.  Nothing quite so deep and game changing as making dwarves select jobs based on personal knowledge.

[Caldfir]

Yes, the primary difficulty with multithreading isn't implementing the threading itself, it's keeping those threads from interfering with one another in terrible and unexpected ways.  If you build software with threading in mind from the start, it can be done pretty cleanly, but at this point in DF's development it's likely more trouble than it is worth.  The amount of effort that would go into multithreading DF would almost certainly be better spent simply optimizing algorithms in stead. 

Multithreading is a frequent suggestion on the forums, and this is almost always the response it gets.  I would suggest starting another topic if one would like to explore the idea and it's possible implications further. 


More on-topic, I'm curious to hear the next few devlog entries.  I can only imagine the kinds of bugs that are showing up in fortress mode right now.  The way the new combat mechanics work for a fortress guard should be interesting - I expect that it will be much less wise to send a single legendary dwarf out to greet invaders in this coming version.  I would also like to know if brawling (in stead of just one-sided tantruming) is now something that can happen in an unhappy fort.  Dwarves have had listed grudges for a long time, and it would be fun to see that come up in play. 

[arkhometha]

More on-topic, I'm curious to hear the next few devlog entries.  I can only imagine the kinds of bugs that are showing up in fortress mode right now.  The way the new combat mechanics work for a fortress guard should be interesting - I expect that it will be much less wise to send a single legendary dwarf out to greet invaders in this coming version.

Well, since dwarfs don't follow combat formations and just run like rabid dogs towards the enemy, I think it will mean a dwarf squads will just be a mess, two or three dying before everyone getting there, then I can only imagine the AI problems, as three goblins attack a single dwarf and ignore the other dwarfs attacking them and so forth.

[Footkerchief]

Have you considered using OpenMP to easily add threading to DF?

This has come up many times in the Suggestions forum.

[WillowLuman]

Personally, I think the whole omniscient thing is the only way Fort mode could work. If your designations had to go through the manager or someone, who then had to go physically tell the miners to dig there, and then they could misinterpret the order (aside from the unintentional way they already do), it would be frustratingly unplayable.

[Waparius]

Personally, I think the whole omniscient thing is the only way Fort mode could work. If your designations had to go through the manager or someone, who then had to go physically tell the miners to dig there, and then they could misinterpret the order (aside from the unintentional way they already do), it would be frustratingly unplayable.

If you got expanded bureaucracy, guildmasters, work gangs with overseers and the like it would add a nice layer of fun to a mature fortress, especially if it only became a problem as your population went up. I for one would like to see larger forts become unwieldy, corrupt messes with the odd secret vampire lair.

[WillowLuman]

Personally, I think the whole omniscient thing is the only way Fort mode could work. If your designations had to go through the manager or someone, who then had to go physically tell the miners to dig there, and then they could misinterpret the order (aside from the unintentional way they already do), it would be frustratingly unplayable.

If you got expanded bureaucracy, guildmasters, work gangs with overseers and the like it would add a nice layer of fun to a mature fortress, especially if it only became a problem as your population went up. I for one would like to see larger forts become unwieldy, corrupt messes with the odd secret vampire lair.

Problem is, they're already pretty much like that, without intentionally added fuddling.

Losing wouldn't be fun anymore if you eventually lose control of your fort with no way to avoid it, due to sheer amount of bureaucratic bundling forced upon you.

[King Mir]

Personally, I think the whole omniscient thing is the only way Fort mode could work. If your designations had to go through the manager or someone, who then had to go physically tell the miners to dig there, and then they could misinterpret the order (aside from the unintentional way they already do), it would be frustratingly unplayable.

If you got expanded bureaucracy, guildmasters, work gangs with overseers and the like it would add a nice layer of fun to a mature fortress, especially if it only became a problem as your population went up. I for one would like to see larger forts become unwieldy, corrupt messes with the odd secret vampire lair.

while more late game challenges would be nice, bureaucracy is not what I'd look for. Already large forts are very hard to manage without Dwarf Therapist. The problems stem from the fact that Toady doesn't often run tests long enough to encounter large forts, so those features get neglected.

[Inarius]

The problems stem from the fact that Toady doesn't often run tests long enough to encounter large forts, so those features get neglected.

Can't we send him a already made fortress, so that he can make his own idea of this matter ?

[WillowLuman]

Large forts tend to collapse from tantrum spirals or diseases, anyway. Bureaucracy =/= fun, except for a rare few situations.