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[eux0r]

personally, im not really interested in the graphics support stuff (i will always play in ascii), with one exception: multi-z-level view.
i think this one thing would make multi-tile entities much more enjoyable (trees, creatures, vehicles, ...).

[CLA]

personally, im not really interested in the graphics support stuff (i will always play in ascii), with one exception: multi-z-level view.
i think this one thing would make multi-tile entities much more enjoyable (trees, creatures, vehicles, ...).

I think even ASCII-like tilesets could benefit from "Full Graphics Support". In fact, if you think about how you would actually display lower elevations when you limit yourself to CP437, you're running into trouble pretty fast even if you'd add partial transparency. You still only have punctuation for floors, and between a 9 pixel period at 100% opacity and a 11 pixel comma at 70% opacity, there isn't much difference.
I experimented with some mockups a while back, and using decreasing opacity or overlaying with another color (blue, like in the mayday mockup, or grey or whatever) only really works well with solid ground like Phoebus/Ironhand/Mayday or Jolly Bastion and my own tileset use (though the current version of CLA with variable ground tiles having various shades already struggles with one layer in some situations).

An alternative would be to use the tiles #176-178 for decreasing elevation, but if you do limit yourself to CP 437 this leaves you with only 3 extra layers, 6 if you'd include brightness 1 and 0 for each (though I think at that point it becomes too difficult to distinguish). Or you use numbers from 1-9 to denote lower elevations, but I don't think this would look good.
My point is, it might be enough to use only CP437, but it would definitely be a limiting factor.

I wouldn't consider "Full Graphics Support" to mean "useful only for the most elaborate and diverse graphic sets", but rather "removing hardcoded limits".
With FGS realized, I would still use symbols from CP437 for most cases. It's just really important for the small subset of cases where the current implementation is very limiting (for example, bins, the cursor, up/down-stairs and creature status effects all using 'X').

This might be a bit too far away from "current development" and it might be a bit suggest-y, but it's sort of related:
Will we see the grid that limits embark zones (one tile in the middle map on the embark screen I mean) be removed at some point? That is, will we be able to embark in between/on two "embark grids"? And will the grid (of any resolution) be less apparent in the world?


EDIT: forgot some questions
Considering the multitile tree rewrite and that we've had new grass for a while now, will we see changes to shrubs or bushes in future versions as well? As in, will some of them cover multiple tiles or change in other ways?
Have any changes been made to worldgen regarding deforesting? I'm thinking of Humans deforesting in the surrounding areas to build their towns and make space for their fields.
Will we be able to use graphic sheets for plants like we can with creatures at some point?

EDIT2:removed question that has already been answered. Thanks Trif.

[Inarius]

I will always play with ASCII graphics. But, Z level viewing seems really interesting.

I'm not against a better UI, too. I'm used to this one, but I think a simpler one could attract more players without lowering the quality(ies) of the game.
On the other hand, if that requires too much work, I would prefer that Toady work on something more useful/interesting. (such as priority number 2 & 9, speeding the game, or even N°7, abstract the complete interface to let other players do the work for him).

[Trif]

With climbing in adventure mode now, and creatures in the world being able to climb in a future version as well, will we see the return of more crass cliff faces?

Back in the old 2D versions, the "cliff face" was covered with a layer of "damaged" stone which couldn't be smoothed but could be dug away more quickly.
Will damaged stone be easier to climb? And if so, might the landscape generation be adjusted to create these again?

The whole idea of cliff faces and canyons is still waiting.  Climbing was the major obstacle to putting those back in the game, but we're still rampy right now.  I agree that most future cliff faces should use the damaged picture and be easier to climb.

[arkhometha]

personally, im not really interested in the graphics support stuff (i will always play in ascii), with one exception: multi-z-level view.
i think this one thing would make multi-tile entities much more enjoyable (trees, creatures, vehicles, ...).

Sure, but more than 800 people are. And FGS doesn't mean an advantage or change only to tilesets, you know, it would cause changes in ASCII too. Not to mention it's probably way easier to implement than multi-tile entities, so it could go in in a bugfix in between yearly releases.

Anyway, sorry for the off-topic.

On the other hand, if that requires too much work, I would prefer that Toady work on something more useful/interesting. (such as priority number 2 & 9, speeding the game, or even N°7, abstract the complete interface to let other players do the work for him).

Speeding up the game (aka multithreading) is a considerable rewrite and Toady already said he is not entirely familiar how to do it, so it's less likely to happen and more hard (and will take more time) to implement. FGS in the other hand, as CLA said, is just a question of removing hardcoded limits.

[Sunday]

What happens regarding the new combat and yielding during fortress mode sieges? First, do the invaders yield? If so, do they then retreat? What about the dwarves -- do they yield? If so, is it a military-only yielding, or fortress-wide?

Or are invasions/ambushes no-quarter?

Sorry if I missed this in a past WoT --- if he's already answered, I'll un-green it.

[SmileyMan]

Apart from anything, adding graphics to what is a gruesome and violent game might bring some unwanted attention from the do-gooders out there.

For the moment, the only thing that can render the image of a 50-ballista minecart cannon being unleashed on two dozen goblins is a human imagination, and they are (currently) free from censorship.

[Putnam]

Apart from anything, adding graphics to what is a gruesome and violent game might bring some unwanted attention from the do-gooders out there.

Graphics meaning generally unchanging 2-dimensional tiles for things that (in this case) aren't creatures.

[arkhometha]

Apart from anything, adding graphics to what is a gruesome and violent game might bring some unwanted attention from the do-gooders out there.

For the moment, the only thing that can render the image of a 50-ballista minecart cannon being unleashed on two dozen goblins is a human imagination, and they are (currently) free from censorship.

You didn't read the FGS thread. If it's implemented, it will be as gory as it is now, it will not turn into GTA4: DF edition.

[zwei]

In latest news, ADOM got full graphics support: http://www.ancientdomainsofmystery.com/2013/05/adom-120-prerelease-14-now-available.html

Apart from anything, adding graphics to what is a gruesome and violent game might bring some unwanted attention from the do-gooders out there.

Which would be awesome advertizement.

Or do you think it would hurt current playerbase and make them quit? Are there publishers that can drop this game and cut Creator off revenue? ERSP rating sticker that would hurt his sales?

Remember that moralilty trolls go for big names and sex, not smallname violence.

Apart from anything, adding graphics to what is a gruesome and violent game might bring some unwanted attention from the do-gooders out there.

Graphics meaning generally unchanging 2-dimensional tiles for things that (in this case) aren't creatures.

Bigno.

Main goal should be to get rid of tile reuse - many tiles are simply too overused.

Seccond 256 character set/spritesheet would be incredibly helpfull. For example you can pick characters from this set: http://www2.cddc.vt.edu/marxists/admin/charsets/fullset.htm

‡ - metal door
ю - amulet
Ξ - bin
ж - cave wheat
д - coffer

... they all look usefull for something.

[arkhometha]

Main goal should be to get rid of tile reuse - many tiles are simply too overused.

Seccond 256 character set/spritesheet would be incredibly helpfull. For example you can pick characters from this set: http://www2.cddc.vt.edu/marxists/admin/charsets/fullset.htm

‡ - metal door
ю - amulet
Ξ - bin
ж - cave wheat
д - coffer

... they all look usefull for something.

You could even reuse them and leave as it, with FGS in DF you could leave the heavy lifting for the community to make.

EDIT:
Not to mention FGS becomes more important by the minute, with the addition of tracks and more elements in game. We could have unique tracks for every "size" of creature, making tracking way more intuitive. And that would be only the beginning.

[Inarius]

I don't want for DF to be graphic. Because whatever could be done, it would always be ugly. Whereas as it is now, I can still imagine what could it be. It's a sort of art, yes, and I think it's part of why it is now in a museum. Abstraction can be beautiful, too.

[arkhometha]

I don't want for DF to be graphic. Because whatever could be done, it would always be ugly. Whereas as it is now, I can still imagine what could it be. It's a sort of art, yes, and I think it's part of why it is now in a museum. Abstraction can be beautiful, too.

And you also didn't read it. FGS doesn't mean it will turn the game into a sprite based game, nor that it will use tilesets by default. It will continue with ASCII. You will just be able to assign more symbols to objects, preventing overusing symbols. And see multiple z-levels if that gets done, and possible more options.
How that is going to hurt your abstraction?

EDIT:
Besides, things would probably continue as they are. Modders would gain more options and everybody who loves the game the way it is could still have it, and people who would like less overusing of symbols could have it. It would make the game more flexible, it would not turn it into a isometric game with sprites.

[Lolfail0009]

Main goal should be to get rid of tile reuse - many tiles are simply too overused.

Seccond 256 character set/spritesheet would be incredibly helpfull. For example you can pick characters from this set: http://www2.cddc.vt.edu/marxists/admin/charsets/fullset.htm

‡ - metal door
ю - amulet
Ξ - bin
ж - cave wheat
д - coffer

... they all look usefull for something.

I for one would love the idea of actually having ϕ to denote my modded Phyrexians. It would be so awesome...

[Putnam]

you mean phirexians :3