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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 3844358 times)

NW_Kohaku

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #600 on: March 13, 2012, 11:57:33 am »

Quote
So a "masterfully trained" animal will have "masterfull trained" children

Is it the mother or father's training status passed on, or some amalgam of both?

I think the key part to that would be here:

Quote from: Toady One
The word "trained" is somewhat weird that way.  It doesn't refer to how many tricks the animal knows, but more how acclimated it is to dwarven life.

I think "trained" in this case is referring more towards "domestication", except that there is a definition conflict, since "domestic" already means fully domesticated. 

Basically, the way dogs were domesticated was by getting dogs to instinctually see humans as "bigger dogs you should obey" through unnatural selection, and the way that honeybees became safer and tamer (compared to the wild African honeybee) was through specifically breeding the bees that were least aggressive. 

You can't teach a honeybee a trick, but you can breed them for docility.   
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Mr Frog

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #601 on: March 13, 2012, 12:39:45 pm »

Totally expecting Footie to catch this one, 'cuz it's far from a new feature, but what, exactly, does the champion do? Is there any particular benefit to having the champion be a skilled fighter as opposed to some random Urist McSchmoe (in 40d, a "champion" was any dwarf who reached legendary in a fighting skill (...right? It's been a while...), so I'm assuming high skill would help)?
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thvaz

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #602 on: March 13, 2012, 12:45:15 pm »

Totally expecting Footie to catch this one, 'cuz it's far from a new feature, but what, exactly, does the champion do? Is there any particular benefit to having the champion be a skilled fighter as opposed to some random Urist McSchmoe (in 40d, a "champion" was any dwarf who reached legendary in a fighting skill (...right? It's been a while...), so I'm assuming high skill would help)?

From entity_default:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It looks like they have an effect in the morale of your dwarves. Maybe they fight better besides a champion.
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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #603 on: March 13, 2012, 12:56:23 pm »

It would be nice for there to be a dwarf who goes around and talks to other dwarves and gives them a morale boost depending on his combat skills. Of course, if he goes and gets killed by a random goblin then the whole fort gets depressed...
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Footkerchief

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #604 on: March 13, 2012, 01:20:59 pm »

Totally expecting Footie to catch this one, 'cuz it's far from a new feature, but what, exactly, does the champion do? Is there any particular benefit to having the champion be a skilled fighter as opposed to some random Urist McSchmoe (in 40d, a "champion" was any dwarf who reached legendary in a fighting skill (...right? It's been a while...), so I'm assuming high skill would help)?
From entity_default:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It looks like they have an effect in the morale of your dwarves. Maybe they fight better besides a champion.

That was definitely part of the plan, but I'm not sure whether BUILD_MORALE ever got any functionality attached.  It's possible that nobody except Toady has ever seen it in use.

2009-06-02:
Quote from: devlog
Finally, the notion of any dwarf gaining a legendary skill becoming a "champion" is going to be replaced by the notion of a single champion that can be appointed/crowned/whatever by the baron/count/duke (one reason to have/keep one). There are various options for what the champion might do, but at the very least, traditional-minded dwarven soldiers (a personality facet) would be bolstered by the presence of the champion.
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Knight Otu

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #605 on: March 13, 2012, 01:54:55 pm »

I'm pretty sure (but can't prove) that BUILD_MORALE is responsible for the "pillar of society" type thoughts that dwarves can have.
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Lord Shonus

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #606 on: March 13, 2012, 03:51:43 pm »

While you were fixing other animal-trading related bugs, did you fix the bug that prevents you from selling animals? (I'm referring to the way in which designating a cage for trading empties the cage first.)
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Spish

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #607 on: March 13, 2012, 04:32:58 pm »

Quote from: Spish
I've noticed that, as of 34.01, creatures in post-abandonment player fortresses don't randomly gather at meeting hall zones anymore (just stand around, not moving at all from wherever the game decides to put them). Was this an intentional change?

I don't remember changing anything here, but it has been a while.
It might've had something to do with keeps, because I recall that soldiers would come running to the lord's house after you talk to him, as opposed to standing guard in the towers and courtyards.

Aye, I can confirm that
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
this used happen in 31.25, but doesn't anymore. The cool part about 31.25 is that, in this fortress for example, the goblin siegers would head towards the Meeting Area(s) in small waves, where I would be constantly battling them up and down the hallways, so for longest time I thought it was aggressive AI sending them to kill my adventurer :P
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Naryar

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #608 on: March 13, 2012, 07:23:09 pm »

It would also be good to fix that animal caretaker bug.

red_29A

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #609 on: March 13, 2012, 07:41:04 pm »

Quote from: red_29A
Are there any plans to bring back glumprongs and sliver barbs?
Quote from: Toady One
It's on the list for this cycle of bug fix releases.

Sweet! Thank you sir! i may have to try a life of crime to get you some donation money. And the clothing bug too?!? The old ladies in my neighborhood had better clutch their purses tight when they walk to the market...
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Untelligent

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #610 on: March 13, 2012, 07:58:44 pm »

It would also be good to fix that animal caretaker bug.


Animal caretaking isn't really a bug so much as a feature that doesn't exist yet.
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Nameless Archon

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #611 on: March 13, 2012, 10:01:11 pm »

It would also be good to fix that animal caretaker bug.


Animal caretaking isn't really a bug so much as a feature that doesn't exist yet.
It would be not much fun to have to retrain your animals, but be unable to save the results of that work with even a basic healthcare system.
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Machiavelli

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #612 on: March 13, 2012, 10:27:04 pm »

I'd like to gen up another world, but am a little deterred from doing so with all of the big changes coming out.  Will these upcoming bugfixes be compatible with 0.34.05-made saves?

I'm awesomely grateful for all of the hard work to fixing bugs, but I can't really afford a lot of time to play these days and don't want to start down a dead end.
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Footkerchief

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #613 on: March 13, 2012, 10:29:51 pm »

I'd like to gen up another world, but am a little deterred from doing so with all of the big changes coming out.  Will these upcoming bugfixes be compatible with 0.34.05-made saves?

I'm awesomely grateful for all of the hard work to fixing bugs, but I can't really afford a lot of time to play these days and don't want to start down a dead end.

Probably, yes.  Save compatibility is generally only broken for really major features or really bad bugs like save corruption (which is not present in the current version, at least not at the severity that caused the 0.34.02 save compat break).
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HiEv

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #614 on: March 13, 2012, 10:39:35 pm »

I'd like to gen up another world, but am a little deterred from doing so with all of the big changes coming out.  Will these upcoming bugfixes be compatible with 0.34.05-made saves?
Well, Toady said that the problem with incompatible saves for v0.34.01 vs v0.34.02+ should be a one time thing, but there is a small chance that some bugfix may force that to happen again.  I'd pretty much bet that the rest of the v0.34.x tree should be backwards compatible with v0.34.02 and higher saves though.

On the other hand, there may be some changes in world gen or such that will solve various problems, but you will only see the fix if you regenerate your world or do some file editing.  Most of these are probably going to be minor inconveniences at this point, but I'd give this a higher probability of having a fix you want.  If you're OK with that though, then go ahead and start playing now.

Or, you could just do what I did, and start a fortress now to just screw around and try some stuff without worrying about all of the stuff you normally would, just so you won't be so rusty when the well-enough-debugged-for-you version is released.  I'm playing around with breaching aquifers now, which was something I had avoided previously, and trying various kinds of squad training.  (Meanwhile the rest of my fortress is way behind where it would normally be at this point in the game.   :P )
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