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[Mesa]

Are there any significant changes to the Legends mode in this release? What's going to be tracked in there now for us lore people to look forward to?

[sambojin]

Quote from: Deboche
Will creatures be able to ride a creature that can climb? And would they keep use of both hands in that situation?

Yeah.  Jumping mounts, maybe, too...  though I'm not really sure what happens code-wise currently when a mount becomes a projectile (which is how jumping works).  The rider may detach, which'll be funny until it is fixed.

Does this mean that an adventurer also becomes a projectile when jumping? Is it possible to jump at an enemy and damage them and would you take damage from the impact? Is it possible to lodge yourself or your mount in bits of enemies, and if so, how do you dislodge yourself? If damage and lodging is possible but unintended, can you leave it in as a "feature" for at least a few versions? Is a quick combat log of jumping-into-something a possibility for us as a sneak-peak, assuming damage does occur from a moving projectile? (or is it like siege projectile? ie: not really damaging).

(I only ask because corpse-shurikens and fluffy-wambler-throwing are time-honored tactics for many adventurers. But if you could throw yourself or your mount by jumping, the results may be rather amusing (and lethal) in the combat logs. I'm assuming human adventurers are considered blunt weapons with a large impact area.)


edit: I green'ified it, because it turns out that after some thought about it, I actually do want to know. It may highlight possible bugs, things that are happening in the code, or potential future hilarity for us to look forward to. Even if ourselves or mounts become "siege projectile'd", some jumps might be fun (wall-splat-parkour style).

[Putnam]

Adventurers are units exactly like every other unit. Yes, they become projectiles when jumping.

[Nasikabatrachus]

Adventurers are units exactly like every other unit. Yes, they become projectiles when jumping.

So. Who's going to mod in Arrow-Man adventurers first?

[sambojin]

Does this have the implications that I'm thinking of? Damage being caused on impact? Standard "blunt weapon" damage? And does jumping into a wall have the same effect it does on crossbow bolts/siege ammunition? You fall down with no damage? When do you stop being a projectile and go back to your normal damage-able self? (I probably have a massive misunderstanding of the background code in this).

(won't green'ify this, but it could be relevant for certain tactics or modding options for creatures/enemies)

[Putnam]

It'll be the same code as unit projectiles, not item projectiles. Huge difference. Unit projectiles have a blue background. You can see them whenever a creature goes unconscious in midair or is hit/thrown particularly hard by another creature that is (usually) much larger than it (though a sufficiently high strength--and by that I mean in the hundreds of thousands--can suffice)

[sambojin]

Cheers. Explains some slight lack of effectiveness in Goblin Golfing when playing as a giant with a warhammer in any case.

[Parisbre56]

All this talk about jumpers as projectiles made me think: wouldn't it be fun to have a poisonous snake bow or an enraged badger catapult? And would they go through fortifications? Actually...


Can jumping living creatures pass through fortifications?
Any plans for weapons or interactions that can shoot/create living creatures? Like a giant cave spider releasing its young to attack an adventurer for example or a catapult that shoots dangerous magical creatures.

[Putnam]

1. No. I'm pretty sure units don't go through fortifications even while being projectiles.
2. There are item sprays that release vermin now, so you can have something like that, even if the vermin are "clouds" of vermin and braindead at that. Still, clouds of spiderlings coming at you? Yeeeesh.

[Urist Da Vinci]

1. No. I'm pretty sure units don't go through fortifications even while being projectiles.
...

All this talk about jumpers as projectiles made me think: wouldn't it be fun to have a poisonous snake bow or an enraged badger catapult? And would they go through fortifications?

Can jumping living creatures pass through fortifications?
[color] ...

Unit projectiles (living creatures) DO pass through fortifications (I tested using DFHack). You can also verify this using a minecart crash setup to fling a living creature through fortifications. If jumping turns a unit into a projectile, then jumping at a fortification may get you lodged in the fortification, or even to the other side. I doubt the AI would deliberately do this though.

[sambojin]

Can said unit be damaged normally (is there actually a fortification bonus vs ranged when inside the fortification), can it fire a crossbow normally, and will it re-stock ammo, drink and eat from a stockpile placed beside it?

(yeah, this isn't really a FotF question, I'm getting a bit silly with them. But turret-emplacement dwarves sounds too good to not ask about. Might be !!science!! time)

edit: never mind. Dwarves only pick up something on the tile they're on. Damn! We were so close....... Needs a natural, infinite ammo weapon and can't have to eat or drink. GCS wall turret? The !!science!! just got horribly difficult.

[Parisbre56]

Can said unit be damaged normally (is there actually a fortification bonus vs ranged when inside the fortification), can it fire a crossbow normally, and will it re-stock ammo, drink and eat from a stockpile placed beside it?

(yeah, this isn't really a FotF question, I'm getting a bit silly with them. But turret-emplacement dwarves sounds too good to not ask about. Might be !!science!! time)

edit: never mind. Dwarves only pick up something on the tile they're on. Damn! We were so close....... Needs a natural, infinite ammo weapon and can't have to eat or drink. GCS wall turret? The !!science!! just got horribly difficult.

http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=2163

Items dropped above fortifications fall inside them. So you could feed them and give them ammo. You could even design a minecart system to do it automatically. As long as you don't mind some message spam and a dwarf that can do nothing else but sit there.

And projectiles stop before entering fortifications so they should be safe, as long as the enemy is far away.
http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Fortification#Bugs

[sambojin]

The Future of the Fortress looks brighter and brighter. Giant aerial body-slam-explode! attacks and fortification stockpiles. Can't wait.

So many things to do on release, modded or not.
(I'll never post in this thread again. Until I do)

[Deboche]

We can't install traps into walls yet. Traps involving stuff coming out of a hole in the wall, now that is another story.

That wall arrangement should work as far as preventing them from climbing. However, it also creates a blind spot where your marksdwarves can't shoot them.

Yes or make a step where they have to walk and have traps there. It would create the blind spot but you could make any level of the wall a fortification and have marksdwarves shoot through that. Or even shoot water through it. Or that other liquid that exists in the game.

Does anybody know if we can drop rocks or other items on climbing gobbos with dump? I'm assuming some form of this will be possible when properly rolling stone fall traps get made.

[Deon]

Damn it, I got a dream tonight that the new version is released and I need to make a mod ASAP. Then I woke up and the magic disappeared...