Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Zucchini]

Can I use custom values for TOOL_USE?

I know the wiki says "Valid tool uses (and the default tools used for these tasks) are as follows:" (and the list follows), implying that no other ones can be used.

But I saw one post where someone was trying to use SAWMILL_AXE as a TOOL_USE (it's not on the list), and the answers given in the thread imply that it is acceptable. And oh my how that would be helpful if it's possible.

So, just wanting to verify. Can do yes yes?

[ArKFallen]

Can I use custom values for TOOL_USE?

I know the wiki says "Valid tool uses (and the default tools used for these tasks) are as follows:" (and the list follows), implying that no other ones can be used.

But I saw one post where someone was trying to use SAWMILL_AXE as a TOOL_USE (it's not on the list), and the answers given in the thread imply that it is acceptable. And oh my how that would be helpful if it's possible.

So, just wanting to verify. Can do yes yes?

Valid Tool Uses are just the tokens that correspond to certain hardcoded actions, so ai will use them. I assume that other TOOL_USEs would work if your use is a building requirement.

[Zucchini]

That is indeed my purpose, so that's good news.  I'll try it out.  Thanks for the answer, ArKFallen.

[vjek]

Ok, maybe a more general question will elicit some brainstorming...

I'd like to make GIANT animals and animal-men more aggressive. In particular, I want them to attempt to invade my fortress at every/any opportunity.

So far, I have added/tested:

   [CV_NEW_TAG:LARGE_ROAMING]
   [CV_NEW_TAG:LIKES_FIGHTING]
   [CV_NEW_TAG:LARGE_PREDATOR]
   [CV_NEW_TAG:NOFEAR]
   [CV_NEW_TAG:OPPOSED_TO_LIFE]
   [CV_NEW_TAG:CAN_LEARN]
   [CV_NEW_TAG:CAN_SPEAK]
   [CV_NEW_TAG:EQUIPS]
   [CV_NEW_TAG:CANOPENDOORS]

And while this has definitely changed their behavior, they still will not investigate the fortress.  They will happily slaughter migrants, pack animals, liaisons, and traders/merchants, which is great, but what I really want is for them to invade.

I've compared the tags that goblins have, as they do invade, and can't see what I'm missing to make all animals similar to goblins in their behavior.   Rather than milling about the map, I just want them to head on inside.  I know that adding CURIOUSBEAST_EATER, CURIOUSBEAST_GUZZLER, or CURIOUSBEAST_ITEM will make an animal try to enter the fort for food, drink, and items, as the case may be.  However, this doesn't appear to work with GIANT or animal-men variants, so I'm looking for ideas.

I've tried PERSONALITY tags, and while those don't appear to cause problems, they don't turn animals into invaders either.

Anyone know of a MOD that has hyper aggressive GIANT animals / animal-men?

[Putnam]

Can I use custom values for TOOL_USE?

I know the wiki says "Valid tool uses (and the default tools used for these tasks) are as follows:" (and the list follows), implying that no other ones can be used.

But I saw one post where someone was trying to use SAWMILL_AXE as a TOOL_USE (it's not on the list), and the answers given in the thread imply that it is acceptable. And oh my how that would be helpful if it's possible.

So, just wanting to verify. Can do yes yes?

Valid Tool Uses are just the tokens that correspond to certain hardcoded actions, so ai will use them. I assume that other TOOL_USEs would work if your use is a building requirement.

If this is so... haha holy shit.

[i2amroy]

-snip-

If you want them to invade you why don't you just make them a civilization? Then you could set them to ambush you in large numbers and attack your fortress with the intent of slaughtering everything within.

Also are you getting any error messages when you try to add the CURIOUSBEAST_XXXX tokens?

[ArKFallen]

Valid Tool Uses are just the tokens that correspond to certain hardcoded actions, so ai will use them. I assume that other TOOL_USEs would work if your use is a building requirement.

If this is so... haha holy shit.

Realizing just how revolutionary that could be to modding I checked it out. Yeah, no go
While it does tie them to certain hardcoded actions it is probably an array instead of a string variable which, while easier and less messy, is less flexible to tinkering.

[Zucchini]

Valid Tool Uses are just the tokens that correspond to certain hardcoded actions, so ai will use them. I assume that other TOOL_USEs would work if your use is a building requirement.

If this is so... haha holy shit.

Realizing just how revolutionary that could be to modding I checked it out. Yeah, no go
While it does tie them to certain hardcoded actions it is probably an array instead of a string variable which, while easier and less messy, is less flexible to tinkering.

Aw, damn.  While I don't know what all that fancy talk about variable types is, I'm sad -- that would really be nice!

edited: varaibles don't exist

[vjek]

-snip-

If you want them to invade you why don't you just make them a civilization? Then you could set them to ambush you in large numbers and attack your fortress with the intent of slaughtering everything within.

Also are you getting any error messages when you try to add the CURIOUSBEAST_XXXX tokens?

I've tried making them civs.  While it's true they will eventually show up, the virtue of animals is that they are 80,000+ of them at worldgen all ready to rock.  As civs, they... well, they're slow to show up, and are in much smaller numbers (dozens or hundreds).  Goblins work fine as enemies in civs, but they suffer from the bug of "hanging around where their leaders die", which is something I'm trying to avoid by using animals.

If curiousbeast worked, my goal would be reached and I would be happy.

I don't get any errors (checked all the logs, can't seem to find any) when I add the tag, but this is what happens:

For the giants or animal men on the embark when the modification is done, it works.  They immediately run into the fort.  However, after that, all giant or animal men with the tag no longer spawn on the embark.

So, thinking it was limited to just a problem with giant or animal men, I changed all the base animals and left the giant and animal men alone.  Same problem.  As the tags are inherited, this wasn't altogether surprising.  In fact, if every animal has any CURIOUSBEAST_ tag, no animals will spawn on the embark, ever.

To verify this was the case, I changed every animal to have a CURIOUSBEAST_ tag except eagles.  After that change, I only had normal eagles, giant eagles, and eagle men.  No other animal would ever spawn on the embark.

It seems like there is some hardcoding regarding back-to-back "curious" beasts coming onto the embark, although this theory is contradicted by what I observed with the eagles.  That is, I never saw another type of creature show up, despite them all being available.

It may be something like "8 different normal creatures must spawn before 1 curious" or some other strange rule, I don't know.  It's a real shame CURIOUSBEAST_ doesn't work, though.  Would make for some awesome customization.

[Putnam]

Valid Tool Uses are just the tokens that correspond to certain hardcoded actions, so ai will use them. I assume that other TOOL_USEs would work if your use is a building requirement.

If this is so... haha holy shit.

Realizing just how revolutionary that could be to modding I checked it out. Yeah, no go
While it does tie them to certain hardcoded actions it is probably an array instead of a string variable which, while easier and less messy, is less flexible to tinkering.

Aw, damn.  While I don't know what all that fancy talk about variable types is, I'm sad -- that would really be nice!

edited: varaibles don't exist

Talking about Toady's C++ code, not modding.

[Reelya]

@vjek: CURIOUSBEAST_XXXX appear on a number of existing creatures. Maybe one of the other tags you're adding is conflicting with that. Try and create a copy of an existing creature with those tags and get them to appear, for a start.

BTW: have you tried BUILDINGDESTROYER tags on your creatures?
http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Building_destroyer

Creatures with this tag are gifted with an incredible ability to sense exactly where your buildings are. Underground creatures such as the Blind cave ogre or Voracious cave crawler will charge your fort immediately after spawning at the edge of the map. Plan your defenses accordingly. Building destroyers still prefer to attack creatures, and if a valid creature target for their aggression is or becomes visible to them, they will abandon building destruction in favor of classic creature destruction.

...perfect, if the wiki is correct. Make sure to use [BUILDINGDESTROYER:2]

[vjek]

@vjek: CURIOUSBEAST_XXXX appear on a number of existing creatures. Maybe one of the other tags you're adding is conflicting with that. Try and create a copy of an existing creature with those tags and get them to appear, for a start.

BTW: have you tried BUILDINGDESTROYER tags on your creatures?
http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Building_destroyer

Creatures with this tag are gifted with an incredible ability to sense exactly where your buildings are. Underground creatures such as the Blind cave ogre or Voracious cave crawler will charge your fort immediately after spawning at the edge of the map. Plan your defenses accordingly. Building destroyers still prefer to attack creatures, and if a valid creature target for their aggression is or becomes visible to them, they will abandon building destruction in favor of classic creature destruction.

...perfect, if the wiki is correct. Make sure to use [BUILDINGDESTROYER:2]

Yeah, I thought of that.  Buzzards, for example, are curious eaters, but when everything had that tag, not even buzzards would show up, so I don't know what the deal was there.  In any case, the defense I am testing is the "magma door" defense (pressurized magma above the door) so when it's opened, it fills the hallway, which has a floor covered in grates.  Doors and grates, if I'm not mistaken, are targeted by building destroyers.
So yes, a good idea, and I will test it, but I'm reasonably sure the building destroyers will remove the doors, thus filling the fort with magma.   Fun!  But not my goal. hehehe.

I'm going to take a closer look at buzzards and see what might be conflicting or missing, as the case may be.  It's possible curiousbeast_ also requires [MEANDERING] for example.  Not sure, but I'll test it.

[MCipher]

YES! YES!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Doombringer 1 has transformed into a nightwalker!
Human 1 has transformed into a nightwalker!
Doombringer 1 has been struck down.

The result is ALMOST perfect!! Success!... Now just to make sure they can breed this way.

-edit- NO THEY CANT. They KILLED eachother.

[Putnam]

Use OPPOSED_TO_LIFE.

[vjek]

Use OPPOSED_TO_LIFE.

If that's for me, I have, and while they attack those things they can see, they don't enter the fortress.  In other words, they won't pathfind into the fortress on their own with just that tag added in, from what I've observed.