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Author Topic: why don't people use Large Serrated Discs as a trade good?  (Read 12887 times)

Mr. Palau

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why don't people use Large Serrated Discs as a trade good?
« on: February 08, 2012, 08:51:23 pm »

Ok so I planned an embark where I would have everything I would need to set up a steel industry, and be able to do so by just past the start of autumn. I did this in the master work mod, which has blast furnaces so smelting the steel was a easier, but even without the mod it wouldn't be too hard to set up a steel industry before the first caravan. I had brought a proficient weapon smith with me so he cranked out so steel serrated discs, which were worth between approximately 3000 and approximately 4500, and with roughly ten of Steel serrated discs I bought out almost the entire caravan. Now of course without the mod I would have had to build more furnaces, and without the proficient weapon smiths I would have had to have built many more steel discs, but it seems to me that it's still more efficient than using stone crafts. Once you have a steel industry set up it only takes between a week or a month to make enough Serrated discs to buy out entire caravans, because the value of the goods generated would vary due to the quality multiplier which is itself dependent on the skill of the weapon smith, so it would take a skilled worker simply less time to produce equivalent value. Now I know most people have used stone crafts as a trade good, and so did I for a long time. Then I wondered why I would go through the trouble of having 2 dwarfs working on just rock crafts their entire lives, when it would take so much less time producing steel discs.  One of the prominent arguments for using stone crafts is that you have to get rid of it somehow, and at least you aren’t atom smashing it when you turn it into crafts. Now of course steel is actually useful, but usually when you find a map that has both coal iron and flux, you have tons of all three, so it isn’t exactly in short supply. If you are going to haul stone to stone crafters work shop, couldn’t you just haul it perhaps even a shorter distance to a drawbridge and atom smash it out of existence? Steel serrated discs only weigh 3 pounds too, and so for pound their value is at least equivalent to if not greater than that of rock crafts.
Now for the tl;dr version, steel serrated discs are very valuable, stone is not, why do you make crafts out of stone, when you could make them out of steel for the same amount of cash per pound?

That is also the question I want to know, people must have known about this before I wrote about it so why does everyone use stone crafts?

Ps. Sorry for being so long winded :-[, I would suggest however that before you post you at least skim what I wrote to see if I didn’t already address what you were going to say. 
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scion-of-fenrir

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Re: why don't people use Large Serrated Discs as a trade good?
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2012, 08:57:29 pm »

Seems inefficient. There are better things to do with steel, and it doesn't take too long to crank out enough useless rock crafts to buy out a caravan with.
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Aleksander

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Re: why don't people use Large Serrated Discs as a trade good?
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2012, 08:58:16 pm »

Because rocks are extremely prevalent
And if you don't have a good steel industry good metal should be used for items inside the fort
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Re: why don't people use Large Serrated Discs as a trade good?
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2012, 08:59:40 pm »

I sell copper and silver serrated disks all the time. Save my iron/steel/adamantine for better stuff.

As for what to do with all the rocks... usually they get turned into pots and mechanisms. Crappy mechanisms get tossed into the magma sea.
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Crioca

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Re: why don't people use Large Serrated Discs as a trade good?
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2012, 09:14:37 pm »

Because how else am I going to get rid of all that stone?
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rephikul

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Re: why don't people use Large Serrated Discs as a trade good?
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2012, 09:20:16 pm »

Cause it's a better investment to use them to print goblinite.
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Mr. Palau

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Re: why don't people use Large Serrated Discs as a trade good?
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2012, 10:07:44 pm »

see rephikul and scion-of-fenrir I don't believe that with a good steel industry up it is a case of crowding out, I could eassly take the dwarves who would have been crafts dwarves and make them metalsmiths or furance operators, and now they will simply make more value per unit of time. so it's not like I have to actually use the steel that would have gone into weapons or armour for the milita and turn it into steel discs but I could simply increase steel production to supstitute for the increased consumption of steel by the metalsmiths making steel serrated discs. however last time I said to solve the stone issue the now execess crafts dwarves could be turnd into haulers, in this hypothetical scenerio, there are of course less haulers now because the imaginary craftsdwarves are now turned into furnace operators and or metalsmiths. so there may be more stone lying around now but I would think that overall there would be a hauling decrease, the haulers don't have to haul stone to workshops and much less hauling to the trade depot has to be done, due to decrease in amount of trade goods generated. not to mention that you don't have to put them in bins first either, just stick them in a stock pile til the caravans come around.
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agatharchides

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Re: why don't people use Large Serrated Discs as a trade good?
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2012, 10:54:28 pm »

If producing goods for the trade caravan were important or difficult it wouldn't be a bad trade item, though meals would still beat them. I like to keep all my dwarves fairly busy though, so I am usually offloading mountains of everything from stone crafts to cloth to mechanisms onto caravans anyway. Usually I melt down metal things I'm not going to use, but I'm a hoarder who loves to have lots of metals and quality weapons stockpiled just because I can.
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Memento Mori

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Re: why don't people use Large Serrated Discs as a trade good?
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2012, 11:54:24 pm »

Mostly because all those rocks are there. And we don't want them there. We want them gone.

Sure, we could dump them all in the lava. But if we craft them and trade them we slowly accumulate wealth as well. AND attract big sieges! Win-win.

And we still have all those steel discs lying around to make a hallway of death with.
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orius

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Re: why don't people use Large Serrated Discs as a trade good?
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2012, 02:30:57 am »

I do use serrated discs as a trade good.  I "trade" them to the goblins in exchange for a lot of fun and all the shit they can carry.
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Re: why don't people use Large Serrated Discs as a trade good?
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2012, 02:34:06 am »

People generally use candy serrated discs as emergency caravan sell outs.

That said, they generally also just seize everything if there's an emergency.

Steel = Expensive

Selling steel = Expensive

MasterMorality

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Re: why don't people use Large Serrated Discs as a trade good?
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2012, 03:44:38 am »

Because I can sell all the random armour and clothing I get from sieges, along with rock crafts and other useless debris, and that's usually good enough.
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Particleman

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Re: why don't people use Large Serrated Discs as a trade good?
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2012, 05:02:07 am »

Because steel takes a lot of effort to make and, while incredibly abundant on some maps, is ultimately limited. Stone, on the other hand, is literally everywhere and you'll practically never run out. Which just gave me the idea to start a fortress, mine all the stone I can, and convert it into crafts for trade with the ultimate goal of exporting every stone on my map. Walls, workshops, etc. shall be made of wood or metal- stones are to be made exclusively into trade goods.
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Alastar

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Re: why don't people use Large Serrated Discs as a trade good?
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2012, 09:07:59 am »

Steel is usually limited, especially if you avoid candy (dislike the stuff). Excess food and glass disks are valuable enough, and I like producing both in large numbers.
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darkflagrance

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Re: why don't people use Large Serrated Discs as a trade good?
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2012, 09:19:52 am »

Prepared meals are immensely valuable and infinite in supply. Steel is not. Therefore, I prefer prepared meals as a trade good.
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