Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Urist McUselessNoble]

Well, if we mislynch at MyLo, we lost. That's what MyLo means. But I get the gist of your point, and will consider it. Thanks.

Well, the presence of a vigkill or other MyLo-breaker on the town side generates some terminological inexactitude as regards MyLo (not so for LyLo, though - you'd need two to break a mislynched LyLo).

Based on this, I'll cast my votes.

Good choices. I hope the fact that you are supporting the lynches I want will prevent me from pointing out how bandwagony and hypocritical they are.    ...Oh crap.

Bandwagoning? Really? My Pranz vote has been sitting there since before you stopped flavourwanking, and I've been prodding Andy for being lurkscum for almost as long. But I wanted to give him a sporting chance at actually participating before I turned my FoS into a lynch vote. He has now had that chance, and failed to deliver.

The only actual news in that post is Toony, who went from being flaky to being scummy between my first and second reread.

Weak, dude.

[Mii]

I apologise for my absence. Weekends are not my forte.

Spoiler: Andrew425 (click to show/hide)

Bookthras:
Do better how? Shit were going downhill so i...

Claimed cop. Yes, that was a cop claim, if it was misunderstood.

You're claiming cop?

On the first day?

Pranz

What kind of vote is this? Why is claiming cop on the first day a bad thing? Do you think the cons overrule the pros (why or why not) of Toaster's plan?

And finally, where the hell are you, Andrew? The previous observation coupled with the fact that you're not here makes you look scummy. Get in here and justify.

Spoiler: Tiruin (click to show/hide)

Mii: Why are you only targeting ToonyMan and Pranz by the way?

They were the only ones I spotted scumtells from at the time. I just did a nice re-read, though, and I'm addressing things that came to my attention that did not do so before.

Also, I did not know that not claiming on random votes was considered bad at all, until now. Thanks to ToonyMan.

Pardon? You never knew that failing to justify random votes was bad? Shouldn't one always have a reason/case for a vote?

Spoiler: ToonyMan (click to show/hide)

I'm not going to try to think of pros and cons just for you when I've already shared my thoughts.

Your thoughts weren't complete. As Bookthras already said (it's not my cup of tea to link to him for reference, but he beat me to you, I'm afraid), you're basically just stating that you don't like how it sounds, and that you openly disagree with it. I want actual information from you. You know, if that is not too much to ask or anything.

You can't just say I'm scummy for my first post either.  That's like saying I'm scummy for my latest post, utterly pointless.

Now you're just being silly! I can say I'm being scum for any post I want that I feel is scummy. It's not pointless - I'm trying to find the liberal scum and you're one of my main suspects.

I'm not your puppet liberal scum.

Fixed that for you.

Spoiler: Urist McUselessNoble (click to show/hide)

EBWOP: And the same for Mii.

Why did I unvote Andrew? I never voted him because all he was doing was lurking (and that is scummy, but I didn't think it was enough for a vote). I went back and read the "case" he made against Pranz and saw that he was something to pay attention to. So lurking and his unjustified reasoning supports my vote.

[Bookthras]

Bandwagoning? Really? My Pranz vote has been sitting there since before you stopped flavourwanking

Well, technically it's a brand new vote, since you unvoted everybody first, and then voted him for wagoning (amongst other, valid, if rather weak, reasons). Still, it's not too important, and as I said, I hoped not to mention it, but I found it funny.

And you say "flavourwanking" as if it was a bad thing! It ain't wanking if it's a consensual activity between several people. You enjoyed it, didn't you? Was it good for you?  8-P


Speaking of which (uhm, the votes, not the wanking):

Dariush needs to come out and play.

He did, a bit. Any new thoughts on him? Does it seem to you that his reply was somewhat protective of ToonyMan?

[Toaster]

Dariush is playing?   I'd love to see some content from him.  I will point out that Book always does that "X, Y and Z:  Give me your read on Foo, Bar, and Baz" type question, every game, every alignment.

[Bookthras]

Oh, hey, Toaster: Please answer these pending questions for you:

the Frontrunner - they will be guaranteed to survive the night, will gain the ability to shift an additional issue during the night, and will be allowed to moderate the debates tomorrow.

"Guaranteed to survive the night"... doesn't that mean that even if you use your rez, you'll survive? If so, then I say keep the green vote on you, do the rez during the night, and we have a confirmed townie for free! ...assuming we lynch a townie.

Toaster:

I am targetable- he is not.  If done at night, it resolves at the end of the phase.  If done during the day, it resolves as soon as GG can process it.
If I was greened, I'd wait until day to have a potentially larger choice of res targets.

Then I don't understand why you said "I don't need the protection" here:

I don't need the protection- I can res any lynched townie at night and they will come back at dawn.  I didn't bring it up sooner because I didn't think of it right after my initial idea, and then I needed clarification on the timing.

Why did you not need the protection, if you're a valid NK target? and what was the clarification on the timing that you received?

Also, has your opinion on ToonyMan changed since his recent posts? What do you think of his failure to answer questions, his insistence on mistrusting you and the plan, with no actual reasons, and his hamfisted attempt at inculpate Tiruin for a trivial misunderstanding?

[Urist McUselessNoble]

Spoiler: Mii (click to show/hide)

You have a couple of misunderstandings:

Also, I did not know that not claiming on random votes was considered bad at all, until now. Thanks to ToonyMan.

Pardon? You never knew that failing to justify random votes was bad? Shouldn't one always have a reason/case for a vote?

He refers to the randomvoter auto ability, not to votes cast manually. As should be clear from the context.

If you're trying to pressure him, it's a bad way to go about it. If you're building a case on him, then you're being a scummy quote-miner.

Why did I unvote Andrew? I never voted him because all he was doing was lurking (and that is scummy, but I didn't think it was enough for a vote). I went back and read the "case" he made against Pranz and saw that he was something to pay attention to. So lurking and his unjustified reasoning supports my vote.

Sorry, that should have been made clearer: I was asking Dariush why he unvoted Andy and you, not you and Dariush why you unvoted Andy.

Spoiler: Bookthras (click to show/hide)

And you say "flavourwanking" as if it was a bad thing! It ain't wanking if it's a consensual activity between several people. You enjoyed it, didn't you? Was it good for you?  8-P

I did enjoy it immensely. Didn't help us find any scum, though, at least not directly.

Speaking of which (uhm, the votes, not the wanking):

Dariush needs to come out and play.

He did, a bit. Any new thoughts on him? Does it seem to you that his reply was somewhat protective of ToonyMan?

It seems to me that you're asking loaded questions.

Dariush's last post failed to state a case, and his behaviour so far is borderline activelurking and generally unimpressive. But (a) the convention on this forum is to take weekends off, and most of this day fell on a weekend, and (b) I'm not a big enough fan of policylynching lurkers that I want to lynch two on the same day. And Andy is way scummier than Dariush.

[Mii]

You have a couple of misunderstandings:

Also, I did not know that not claiming on random votes was considered bad at all, until now. Thanks to ToonyMan.

Pardon? You never knew that failing to justify random votes was bad? Shouldn't one always have a reason/case for a vote?

He refers to the randomvoter auto ability, not to votes cast manually. As should be clear from the context.

If you're trying to pressure him, it's a bad way to go about it. If you're building a case on him, then you're being a scummy quote-miner.

I wasn't trying to 'quote-mine' anyone. I was genuinely curious as to why randomvoting could ever be considered excusable without facts behind it. But I see now how this could be the case, as the actual meaning before flew over my head.

Why did I unvote Andrew? I never voted him because all he was doing was lurking (and that is scummy, but I didn't think it was enough for a vote). I went back and read the "case" he made against Pranz and saw that he was something to pay attention to. So lurking and his unjustified reasoning supports my vote.

Sorry, that should have been made clearer: I was asking Dariush why he unvoted Andy and you, not you and Dariush why you unvoted Andy.

I see. Well, nonetheless the answer is out there and hopefully Andrew will soon be around to read it.

[ToonyMan]

ANSWER THE FREAKING QUESTIONS, you deflecting scum!

I already answered the question.  You're just not being satisfied.  I answered it for Mii too.  If you want to be friends with Toaster you should ask him yourself.

Spoiler: ToonyMan (click to show/hide)

Ever since this post you've been voting Mii based on flavourwank and horribad logic. Since this post, he's been voting Tiruin on the same sort of transparently fallacious logic. Transparently fallacious logic like this:

@ToonyMan: If you want to clarify something, then type it down! You're trying to slander my name by saying I'm misinterpreting but how can I get what your view is if you don't say anything! Your vote on me seems completely senseless by that.

You said Pranz was a 'buddyer', you then answered a question for somebody else, defending them.

For those in the audience who were not keeping score, Tiruin didn't answer the question. He attacked the premise of the question. Which is perfectly proper scumhunting, because it was a monumentally shitty question.

Here, you back off from a pressure vote based on a facile non-answer, after others have pointed out that the question you were pressuring on was a facile non-question. Why did you back off rather than ask real questions, when people noticed that your question was bad?

Nice acting.  Linking posts does not make it any more convincing.  You're just listing what has happened and trying to make it seem 'aggressive'.  I recast my vote on you because you were being scummy, your entire reason for voting me is absolutely pointless and holds no 'evidence' which even you want from me!  Pranz's gut feeling is as good as yours.  Your vote definitely has less base than mine.

Lolwut?

Methinks me sees an OMGUS.

Oh, and "linking posts" is what we call building a case. Attack the specifics of the case. Don't attack the fact that she's building a case.

I don't trust what you're saying Toaster.  I believe in a Bay12 mafia Josh or Jim or somebody made up this 'game plan' on the first day and it turned out they were just trying to fufill their win condition as quickly as possible.  It was quite amazing to see the other players turn into mindless sheep as they all did what was asked of them.  There is no easy way out in this.
Like, if you don't get the straw vote majority then will you be able to resurrect someone before getting night killed?  Since the mafia will do that and that would prevent the day 2 town win.  I want clarification on that.  It looks so far that you will get the majority but I disagree with this openly.  You can easily have another plan I wouldn't be able to predict and it's much better to hunt scum on who you actually think they are.  I'm going to ask why you didn't bring this up sooner or if you were hesitant to 'break the game' for the good of town, heh.

Um, so what? Toaster's plan involves a clearly and cheaply (for the rest of the town) testable hypothesis: Specifically, "one of today's mislynches will come back from the dead by tomorrow." If that doesn't happen, Toaster gets lynched. End of story. If it does happen, town wins. Also end of story.

I fail to see the problem here.

If Tiruin was trying to attack my question then I just don't see it.  I don't see an attack and it was just confusing so I kept my vote on him.  Sure he based his attack on the very nonsense itself afterwards but that's him being scummy and voting for no reason.  Misunderstandings are important because they show whether somebody can actually put together logic that makes sense.  Attacking somebody when they don't even know they're being attacked makes no sense and it's scummy.

ToonyMan:

You know saying the same things over and over again doesn't make it the truth,

Of course it does! Just ask Dick Cheney! How do you think we achieved war with Iraq?

I saw it, and utterly debunked it on my following post. You have presented no clear reasons beyond "I don't trust Toaster", "you could have another plan I can't predict" and "I disagree with this openly". WHY!? Why don't you trust Toaster (the man just saved your neck!), which other plan could he have? Why do you disagree with this openly?

Please be clear and specific.

ANSWER THE FREAKING QUESTIONS, you deflecting scum!

Oh god the hipocrisy. Unvote everyone, Pranz, Bookthras.

This is pretty hilarious.  Are you trying to throw questions at Toaster just to look convincing Bookthras?  If you fully agree with him there's really no point to do that you know.  Bookthras, I'm not sure why I haven't voted you yet.

Spoiler: ToonyMan (click to show/hide)

I'm not going to try to think of pros and cons just for you when I've already shared my thoughts.

Your thoughts weren't complete. As Bookthras already said (it's not my cup of tea to link to him for reference, but he beat me to you, I'm afraid), you're basically just stating that you don't like how it sounds, and that you openly disagree with it. I want actual information from you. You know, if that is not too much to ask or anything.

You can't just say I'm scummy for my first post either.  That's like saying I'm scummy for my latest post, utterly pointless.

Now you're just being silly! I can say I'm being scum for any post I want that I feel is scummy. It's not pointless - I'm trying to find the liberal scum and you're one of my main suspects.

I'm not your puppet liberal scum.

Fixed that for you.

This is all pointless, quit wasting town's time.  Are you making posts to make posts or are you actually thinking?  You can't win by being a mindless drone Mr. Liberal.  I expect full reasoning from you with logic and proof and evidence and total linkage!

[Bookthras]

ToonyMan:

ANSWER THE FREAKING QUESTIONS, you deflecting scum!

I already answered the question.  You're just not being satisfied.

No, you didn't. You continue to deflect.


THESE ARE THE QUESTIONS I want you to answer. If you have (hint: you haven't), then please link me or quote your response:

You have presented no clear reasons beyond "I don't trust Toaster", "you could have another plan I can't predict" and "I disagree with this openly". WHY!? Why don't you trust Toaster? (the man just saved your neck!), which other plan could he have? Why do you disagree with this openly?

Please be clear and specific.

Please be clear and specific. While you're doing that, please also tell me if you think Dariush, McNoble, and Andrew are scum or not, and why.

[Urist McUselessNoble]

If Tiruin was trying to attack my question then I just don't see it.

Which part of this did you find it difficult to parse?

ToonyMan: Where is your honor, defiling another's reputation because of his NAME! Paranoia all around?!

Misunderstandings are important because they show whether somebody can actually put together logic that makes sense. Attacking somebody when they don't even know they're being attacked makes no sense and it's scummy.

Oh. That's a good point, let me think for a bit.
No, wait, my mistake, that's absolute bullshit.

You don't get to hide from scumhunting by herpaderping and pretending to not understand something that's perfectly clear and obvious to everyone else reading this thread. I don't know if there's a Mafia term for the Chewbacca defence or not, but either way it's scummy as all Hell.

Bookthras, I'm not sure why I haven't voted you yet.

Um, because you don't have the first hint of anything that might have even once been a kissing cousin to a case on him?

Throwing around random votes and hoping they stick without actually presenting evidence is, eh, not going to help your case at all.

[Toaster]

Book:  Sorry, missed those.

the Frontrunner - they will be guaranteed to survive the night, will gain the ability to shift an additional issue during the night, and will be allowed to moderate the debates tomorrow.

"Guaranteed to survive the night"... doesn't that mean that even if you use your rez, you'll survive? If so, then I say keep the green vote on you, do the rez during the night, and we have a confirmed townie for free! ...assuming we lynch a townie.

I don't know, but I doubt it.  I'll ask to clarify.

Oh, hey, Toaster: Please answer these pending questions for you:

I don't need the protection- I can res any lynched townie at night and they will come back at dawn.  I didn't bring it up sooner because I didn't think of it right after my initial idea, and then I needed clarification on the timing.

Why did you not need the protection, if you're a valid NK target? and what was the clarification on the timing that you received?

(I assume- I'm not speaking from certainty here.)  If I use the res at night, the target will come back to life even if I am killed.  I wanted to know if I used it at night, would the target res in the middle of the night (and thus be a valid NK target) or at dawn (and not be a valid NK target.).  I'll ask to clarify if it still works if I am NKed as well.


As far as Toony is concerned, he's getting scummier.  He's getting bull-headed stubborn over the questions, for example.  I don't care if he distrusts me- this is Mafia, after all.  His attack on Tiruin is pretty lame.


Toony:  I'd like to hear a statement from you as to who is scum and why- your posts are disjointed and hard to read.

[Mii]

This is all pointless, quit wasting town's time.  Are you making posts to make posts or are you actually thinking?  You can't win by being a mindless drone Mr. Liberal. ]I expect full reasoning from you with logic and proof and evidence and total linkage!

I'm only asking a question. It's only pointless if you don't answer the question.

Stop being question-deflecting scum and give me what I ask of you. Or at least tell me why I would ever remove my vote from you at this point. I'd like you to prove to me your town, if there is even a way to climb out of the hole you so readily jumped into.

PPE: Post is a bit late due to site trouble.

[ToonyMan]

THESE ARE THE QUESTIONS I want you to answer. If you have (hint: you haven't), then please link me or quote your response:

You have presented no clear reasons beyond "I don't trust Toaster", "you could have another plan I can't predict" and "I disagree with this openly". WHY!? Why don't you trust Toaster? (the man just saved your neck!), which other plan could he have? Why do you disagree with this openly?
Please be clear and specific.

Please be clear and specific. While you're doing that, please also tell me if you think Dariush, McNoble, and Andrew are scum or not, and why.

I don't trust Toaster's plan because there are better ways.  I don't want to lay my trust on him when I can vote who I think is scum.  If Toaster's plan is to gather straw votes and have two people lynched and the targets are people I want to see lynched then that's okay, except for having to put so much trust into Toaster.  What I don't want to see is the town being horribly crippled Day 2 because we take a gambit mindlessly.

Dariush - defending me but he's right about you being scummy and you are trying for an 'over-aggressive' approach not caring if you contradict yourself heavily.  If you want me to be dead obvious plain then I don't think he's scum.
McNoble - a bit of an asshole but I don't think he's liberal scum.  His points actually make sense.
Andrew - Scummy.  I don't see him doing anything.

If Tiruin was trying to attack my question then I just don't see it.

Which part of this did you find it difficult to parse?

ToonyMan: Where is your honor, defiling another's reputation because of his NAME! Paranoia all around?!

Misunderstandings are important because they show whether somebody can actually put together logic that makes sense. Attacking somebody when they don't even know they're being attacked makes no sense and it's scummy.

Oh. That's a good point, let me think for a bit.
No, wait, my mistake, that's absolute bullshit.
You don't get to hide from scumhunting by herpaderping and pretending to not understand something that's perfectly clear and obvious to everyone else reading this thread. I don't know if there's a Mafia term for the Chewbacca defence or not, but either way it's scummy as all Hell.

Bookthras, I'm not sure why I haven't voted you yet.

Um, because you don't have the first hint of anything that might have even once been a kissing cousin to a case on him?
Throwing around random votes and hoping they stick without actually presenting evidence is, eh, not going to help your case at all.

Oh, you mean when Tiruin joke voted me?  That's the wrong spot.  I'm talking about when he starting getting strange with the 'buddyer' thing and nobody seems to understand that!  I don't mean the stupid name thing.  If this was really the misunderstanding then wow.  I can take some blame but seriously what the hell that's not even what I was talking about the entire game so far.  I didn't mean the Andrew name thing at all.  Urgh that's so stupid.
Bookthras' vote isn't random dude.  He clearly doesn't know what he's doing with his attack and is trying to build a case on the same thing over and over again, like a certain Mii.  It's really stupid and aggravating and if he plans to hide his alignment by being loud and incoherent it's not going to work.

Toony:  I'd like to hear a statement from you as to who is scum and why- your posts are disjointed and hard to read.

Yeah this is probably the best if I spill my guts for everybody.

Unvote everybody

(lurking)Dariush - see prior
Toaster - about the same level as McNoble, he's not scummy to vote on or anything but I'd rather not go with the plan AS I SAID BEFORE
Bookthras - going to repeat what I said before, overbearing and controlling, using his words to confuse and decieve the town, is also befriending Toaster HARD and doesn't care about being consistent, claimed vig I believe?  good way to stay in control
(lurking)Pranz - claimed cop, is staying away from the game, scum
(lurking)Andrew45 - has been doing nothing, a thought post would be cool, pressure vote
UristMcNoble - like Toaster, normal town
Mii - getting on my case for the stupidest reasons, should hang, seriously they don't even post content
Tiruin, doesn't understand anything, confusing matters all around, scum

That looks right to me.

This is all pointless, quit wasting town's time.  Are you making posts to make posts or are you actually thinking?  You can't win by being a mindless drone Mr. Liberal. ]I expect full reasoning from you with logic and proof and evidence and total linkage!

I'm only asking a question. It's only pointless if you don't answer the question.
Stop being question-deflecting scum and give me what I ask of you. Or at least tell me why I would ever remove my vote from you at this point. I'd like you to prove to me your town, if there is even a way to climb out of the hole you so readily jumped into.

I don't see a question anywhere from you.  You even cut your spoiler post out from the quote, did you realize how stupid it was?  Explain to me how useless and stupid it was.

What I need to be saying here and that you're asking me to prove I'm town.  That's not how you play mafia.  You find others who are not being town.  You don't pamper your own damn image by saying how great you are.  At this point have you completely given up giving logical attacks Mii?  This is so stupid.

[Mii]

I don't trust Toaster's plan because there are better ways.  I don't want to lay my trust on him when I can vote who I think is scum.  If Toaster's plan is to gather straw votes and have two people lynched and the targets are people I want to see lynched then that's okay, except for having to put so much trust into Toaster.  What I don't want to see is the town being horribly crippled Day 2 because we take a gambit mindlessly.
[...]
I don't see a question anywhere from you.  You even cut your spoiler post out from the quote, did you realize how stupid it was?  Explain to me how useless and stupid it was.

What I need to be saying here and that you're asking me to prove I'm town.  That's not how you play mafia.  You find others who are not being town.  You don't pamper your own damn image by saying how great you are.  At this point have you completely given up giving logical attacks Mii?  This is so stupid.

Oh, good, you answered something! You misunderstood me. What I meant by wanting you to tell me why you're town is that I wanted you to prove my claims wrong. I'll drop it for now, though, seeing as reasoning about this at the moment is a moot point on both ends.

What are these "better ways" that you speak of?

Spoiler: ooc (click to show/hide)

I'm off for the night. Have to get up early, and it's getting late on my end. I'll be back on sometime tomorrow.

[Bookthras]

THESE ARE THE QUESTIONS I want you to answer. If you have (hint: you haven't), then please link me or quote your response:

You have presented no clear reasons beyond "I don't trust Toaster", "you could have another plan I can't predict" and "I disagree with this openly". WHY!? Why don't you trust Toaster? (the man just saved your neck!), which other plan could he have? Why do you disagree with this openly?
Please be clear and specific.

Please be clear and specific. While you're doing that, please also tell me if you think Dariush, McNoble, and Andrew are scum or not, and why.

I don't trust Toaster's plan because there are better ways.  I don't want to lay my trust on him when I can vote who I think is scum.  If Toaster's plan is to gather straw votes and have two people lynched and the targets are people I want to see lynched then that's okay, except for having to put so much trust into Toaster.  What I don't want to see is the town being horribly crippled Day 2 because we take a gambit mindlessly.

There. That wasn't so hard was it? It only took several people several tries of hounding you until you decided you couldn't hide any more. When you saw that Toaster was getting ready to revote you, you relented.

Unfortunately for you, you are still scum because you did evade and deflect the questions several times. Amending that behaviour is merely a scummy backtrack when cornered, it doesn't change the fact that you lied when you said "I already answered them" several times, when clearly you hadn't.


On top of that:

Bookthras - going to repeat what I said before, overbearing and controlling, using his words to confuse and decieve the town, is also befriending Toaster HARD and doesn't care about being consistent,

You say this now. Here's what you said only a few posts ago:

I'd probably straw vote Toaster or you, Bookthras.

For one, people including you and Bookthras have stayed alert and focused.

The only things that have changed between then and now are: a) Toaster proposed his plan, I supported it, you freaked out and panicked, I called you on it; and b) I voted you, and pressed you to answer simple questions about the first point.

Has something else changed? Would you still straw-vote Toaster or I? am I "alert and focused" or "overbearing and doesn't know what he's doing"? Where am I "inconsistent"? I still think these above are buddying attempts, trying to keep active players off your case, but that's subjective. That you are now voting and denouncing those that spent the most time pressing you, however, is a clear OMGUS.

You are changing your story because I voted you, and then chased you around the room until you felt cornered. You are panicky, liar, deflector, OMGUSer, and scum.


Given that, this is how interpret your votes:
"Andrew45 - has been doing nothing, a thought post would be cool, pressure vote" : Sure. "pressure vote", not "lynching vote", so just a move in preparation of the possibly inevitable bussing that's coming. He's most likely to be your buddy.

"Dariush - see prior" : I think it's quite possible he's your buddy, or some sort of allied 3rd party. You don't like that he defended you publicly, but can't vote him.

"Pranz - claimed cop, is staying away from the game, scum" : Yeah, getting rid of the claimed cop (however noobish a move) must be right. The fact that you (and Dariush and Andrew) are voting him is the main reason I think he's just noobtown who panicked.




Thanks for answering my questions, ToonyMan. Now go hang, scum.