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[Tiruin]

Since I guess GlyphGryph is busy enough with the votes, I'd count it myself as I'm confused as to whose vote is on who.

Attack Ad Targets list! (Let me know if I missed one of your votes or unvotes!)
1. Dariush <- Bookthras
2. Toaster <-
3. Bookthras <-
4. Pranz <- Urist McUselessNoble, Dariush, ToonyMan, Tiruin, Andrew425
5. Andrew425 <- Tiruin, Toaster, Tiruin, Dariush, Bookthras
6. ToonyMan <- Toaster, Pranz, Mii, Bookthras, Tiruin
7. UristMcUselessNoble <- Bookthras, Tiruin
8. Mii <- Toaster, ToonyMan, Dariush
9. Tiruin <- andrew425, ToonyMan


Leader of the Pack:
1. Dariush <- Dariush
2. Toaster <- Toaster, Urist McUselessNoble, Tiruin, Pranz, Mii
3. Bookthras <- Bookthras
4. Pranz
5. Andrew425 <- Andrew425
6. ToonyMan <- ToonyMan
7. UristMcUselessNoble <-
8. Mii <- Mii
9. Tiruin <- Tiruin

[Bookthras]

Approval Voting - "Vote for one" becomes "Vote for one or more". You may vote for any number of targets, though you may still vote for any target once. Any target who gets more than 50% of the vote will be lynched - this means that you can potentially lynch everyone day 1 if you really felt like it.

It doesn't matter if one person gets, for example, 6/7 votes and another 5/7- they're both gone.

Ah! OK. One of these days I'll learn the rules... 8-/

It makes sense, and should make us safe as long as there's enough participation, however I'm now worried about the "more than 50%" thing. With seven players left, we'd need four participants for it to work... but with six, three are not quite enough, are they? We'd still need four.

It seems suddenly important that there are an odd, not even, number of players left by the start of D2. Which makes clarity on our lynch targets for today more, uhm, important, and will involve a lot of second guessing during the night, what with possible kills and protections and whatnot.

I'm glad my earlier misgivings were misplaced, I'm less glad that I just thought up new ones. Oh well. It'll be as it'll be.

I don't need the protection- I can res any lynched townie at night and they will come back at dawn.  I didn't bring it up sooner because I didn't think of it right after my initial idea, and then I needed clarification on the timing.

I read this as the rez (and your death due to the rez) happening before any night kills; is that right? If so, shouldn't we move the green vote to someone else who (ahem) may also be a high-priority kill target? The only reason you'd be NK'd at all is if we lynch only scum today, and if we do, we're sitting pretty regardless. Opinions?

While we're here, do you have suggestions for a possible vig-kill target?



PPE: Thanks Tiruin, that's quite helpful (but Moderator, we'd still like an official one, please). From that list, Pranz, Toony and Andrew will be lynched tonight, with is fine by me, although I'd like McNoble and Dariush to restate their case against Pranz, please.

[Toaster]

Unvote ToonyMan.  That was an RV, and I don't really have a scum read on him.  I do realize this takes him off the lynch list.


Book:

I don't need the protection- I can res any lynched townie at night and they will come back at dawn.  I didn't bring it up sooner because I didn't think of it right after my initial idea, and then I needed clarification on the timing.

I read this as the rez (and your death due to the rez) happening before any night kills; is that right? If so, shouldn't we move the green vote to someone else who (ahem) may also be a high-priority kill target? The only reason you'd be NK'd at all is if we lynch only scum today, and if we do, we're sitting pretty regardless. Opinions?

While we're here, do you have suggestions for a possible vig-kill target?

No.  A night-time res would be a standard night action, and therefore they'd come back to life too late to be nightkilled.  If I wait until day, I can additionally choose any nightkilled person.

My gut suggests holding fire tonight... though if we lynch two townies tonight, you'd have an either 60% or 80% chance* to shoot non-town if you fired even at random.  If we knock off a scum or two, you should probably hold fire since The Plan would be much more likely to succeed.


*Seven people alive going in to the night- assume you and I are both town (since I'd be unkillable if I do will the straw poll.)  Two scum and either one or two third parties, leaving either one or two other townies.

[Tiruin]

My gut suggests holding fire tonight... though if we lynch two townies tonight, you'd have an either 60% or 80% chance* to shoot non-town if you fired even at random.  If we knock off a scum or two, you should probably hold fire since The Plan would be much more likely to succeed.

You can lynch at night? I thought lynches only happen at day, didn't say anything about night in the OP.

Toaster

Or I may be misunderstanding.

Andrew425: You've done only two posts, filled with RVS votes/questions. Come out and defend yourself.

[GlyphGryph]

I apologize, but it turns out I'm not even going to be /home/ until Monday. Which means no time to write flavour, no time to even tally votes. Sorry folks.

Game is extended until Monday night. Make good use of the time.

[Bookthras]

Unvote ToonyMan.  That was an RV, and I don't really have a scum read on him.  I do realize this takes him off the lynch list.

Hmm. I don't like that. Your vote, your choice, of course, but Dariush, McNoble, Andrew (heh, familiar list, isn't it?): please give your opinions as to ToonyMan's scumhood or lack thereof.

No.  A night-time res would be a standard night action, and therefore they'd come back to life too late to be nightkilled.  If I wait until day, I can additionally choose any nightkilled person.

I don't quite get it. If you rez a lynched townie during the night, are you or him possible NK targets? i.e., "no" means you'd be already dead, he'd not be alive yet; "yes" means you could be killed before rezzing, or he could be killed before day start.

If the answer is "no", then you don't need the green-thing protection; if it is "yes", then you do, but you should wait until day to do it (he'd rez immediately during D2, right?)

Also:

the Frontrunner - they will be guaranteed to survive the night, will gain the ability to shift an additional issue during the night, and will be allowed to moderate the debates tomorrow.

"Guaranteed to survive the night"... doesn't that mean that even if you use your rez, you'll survive? If so, then I say keep the green vote on you, do the rez during the night, and we have a confirmed townie for free! ...assuming we lynch a townie.

My gut suggests holding fire tonight... though if we lynch two townies tonight, you'd have an either 60% or 80% chance* to shoot non-town if you fired even at random.  If we knock off a scum or two, you should probably hold fire since The Plan would be much more likely to succeed.

I hear you, but a) it seems the most important consideration is to have an odd number rather than even, which does imply lots of second-guessing during the night, but may be necessary; and b) you just gave me a bit scum-shaped target at the top of your last post.


Tiruin: You missed my green vote for Toaster here. Also, you too please restate and reevaluate your case against Pranz.

Seeing the (minor) error above, I think that while still very helpful (thanks), we should be cautious about making definitive conclusions just from the his vote list.


PPE: Yay! Extension! More time for plotting and scheming! Let's unleash the flavour again if we get bored!

[Toaster]

Book:

No.  A night-time res would be a standard night action, and therefore they'd come back to life too late to be nightkilled.  If I wait until day, I can additionally choose any nightkilled person.

I don't quite get it. If you rez a lynched townie during the night, are you or him possible NK targets? i.e., "no" means you'd be already dead, he'd not be alive yet; "yes" means you could be killed before rezzing, or he could be killed before day start.

If the answer is "no", then you don't need the green-thing protection; if it is "yes", then you do, but you should wait until day to do it (he'd rez immediately during D2, right?)

I am targetable- he is not.  If done at night, it resolves at the end of the phase.  If done during the day, it resolves as soon as GG can process it.

If I was greened, I'd wait until day to have a potentially larger choice of res targets.


Tiruin:

You can lynch at night? I thought lynches only happen at day, didn't say anything about night in the OP.

Toaster

Or I may be misunderstanding.

You are misunderstanding- tonight as end of day.  I agree that it was unclear though- my bad.

[ToonyMan]

ToonyMan: I know it's rehashed. As I said, I just took away the flavour and showed you the reasons behind my vote. Please direct me to your explanation. Also, I know that you already explained why you didn't like it. I want you to put in a list the pros and the cons. What can go wrong but also what can go right. Compare.

So redundancy for the sake of redundancy?  You know saying the same things over and over again doesn't make it the truth, there's no point in wasting time repeating ourselves.

You're just listing what has happened and trying to make it seem 'aggressive'.  I recast my vote on you because you were being scummy, your entire reason for voting me is absolutely pointless and holds no 'evidence' which even you want from me!  Pranz's gut feeling is as good as yours.  Your vote definitely has less base than mine.

You can't just say I'm scummy for my first post either.  That's like saying I'm scummy for my latest post, utterly pointless.  Oh, and for your list of pros and cons that's completely stupid too.  I already shared my thoughts on Toaster's stuff here:

I don't trust what you're saying Toaster.  I believe in a Bay12 mafia Josh or Jim or somebody made up this 'game plan' on the first day and it turned out they were just trying to fufill their win condition as quickly as possible.  It was quite amazing to see the other players turn into mindless sheep as they all did what was asked of them.  There is no easy way out in this.
Like, if you don't get the straw vote majority then will you be able to resurrect someone before getting night killed?  Since the mafia will do that and that would prevent the day 2 town win.  I want clarification on that.  It looks so far that you will get the majority but I disagree with this openly.  You can easily have another plan I wouldn't be able to predict and it's much better to hunt scum on who you actually think they are.  I'm going to ask why you didn't bring this up sooner or if you were hesitant to 'break the game' for the good of town, heh.

I'm not going to try to think of pros and cons just for you when I've already shared my thoughts.  Organize yourself, I'm not your puppet liberal scum.

@Bookthras:
Why do you think I'm scum again?

@Tiruin:

My gut suggests holding fire tonight... though if we lynch two townies tonight, you'd have an either 60% or 80% chance* to shoot non-town if you fired even at random.  If we knock off a scum or two, you should probably hold fire since The Plan would be much more likely to succeed.

You can lynch at night? I thought lynches only happen at day, didn't say anything about night in the OP.
Toaster

You're overreacting here out of nothing.  I highly doubt Toaster means 'tonight' as in the night and more later in the day.  Why would you think Toaster meant anything else?

[ToonyMan]

This is the second time Tiruin has majorly misunderstood something.  Are you going to vote Toaster now Tiruin?

[Tiruin]

@Tiruin:

My gut suggests holding fire tonight... though if we lynch two townies tonight, you'd have an either 60% or 80% chance* to shoot non-town if you fired even at random.  If we knock off a scum or two, you should probably hold fire since The Plan would be much more likely to succeed.

You can lynch at night? I thought lynches only happen at day, didn't say anything about night in the OP.
Toaster

You're overreacting here out of nothing.  I highly doubt Toaster means 'tonight' as in the night and more later in the day.  Why would you think Toaster meant anything else?

How he worded it? And his answer above your post? Bastard mod, I didn't see anything about night lynching at all nor do I see myself overreacting.

@Bookthras: Thanks for pointing that out (and cheers to GlyphGryph for the extension).

PPE (ToonyMan): You're very obsessed to incriminate me on my understanding despite knowing your own faults in my first. And you want me to vote him right out? What?

He just answered it and clarified it, if you hadn't read.

Tiruin:

You can lynch at night? I thought lynches only happen at day, didn't say anything about night in the OP.

Toaster

Or I may be misunderstanding.

You are misunderstanding- tonight as end of day.  I agree that it was unclear though- my bad.

Scum afraid of lynch?

[ToonyMan]

Toaster ended up posting like 4 seconds before I did.  I don't have the option on that makes me get interrupted.

[Bookthras]

Toaster:

I am targetable- he is not.  If done at night, it resolves at the end of the phase.  If done during the day, it resolves as soon as GG can process it.
If I was greened, I'd wait until day to have a potentially larger choice of res targets.

Then I don't understand why you said "I don't need the protection" here:

I don't need the protection- I can res any lynched townie at night and they will come back at dawn.  I didn't bring it up sooner because I didn't think of it right after my initial idea, and then I needed clarification on the timing.

Why did you not need the protection, if you're a valid NK target? and what was the clarification on the timing that you received?


ToonyMan:

You know saying the same things over and over again doesn't make it the truth,

Of course it does! Just ask Dick Cheney! How do you think we achieved war with Iraq?

I already shared my thoughts on Toaster's stuff here:

I saw it, and utterly debunked it on my following post. You have presented no clear reasons beyond "I don't trust Toaster", "you could have another plan I can't predict" and "I disagree with this openly". WHY!? Why don't you trust Toaster (the man just saved your neck!), which other plan could he have? Why do you disagree with this openly?

Please be clear and specific.

@Bookthras:
Why do you think I'm scum again?

I have a strong scum read on you. I will not get more specific until I hear from:
Dariush, McNoble, Andrew: Please give your read, with detailed reasons, on whether ToonyMan is liberal scum or not. Also give your read, with detailed reasons, on whether Pranz is liberal scum or not.

[Bookthras]

@Bookthras: Thanks for pointing that out (and cheers to GlyphGryph for the extension).

Sure, but you didnt answer my question. Tiruin: please restate and reevaluate your case against Pranz. Also, what's your read on Mii?

[ToonyMan]

I have a strong scum read on you. I will not get more specific until I hear from:
Dariush, McNoble, Andrew: Please give your read, with detailed reasons, on whether ToonyMan is liberal scum or not. Also give your read, with detailed reasons, on whether Pranz is liberal scum or not.

Doesn't this instill you're just trying to rally up others with a mob mentality?  You shouldn't have to do that if you're town, you can make your own 'convincing' argument.  You're trying to force the issue here and it's phony.

[Tiruin]

Toaster ended up posting like 4 seconds before I did.  I don't have the option on that makes me get interrupted.

PPE then?

Bookthras: It seems I missed a bit of your post-...

Which is now included in this PPE:

Pranz: I'm unsure as whether all your acts are due to you being new to Mafia, but when you do claim (not just I'm a cop!) but also back it up. You also can't just vote a person because of gut feeling; restating, you need to back up your attacks.

But I wonder why he is giving impressions on players and not voting them to get answers. Pranz, a tip, observing is not how to win. Act to win.

EDIT: Vote Toaster ffor a good strategy.

If I may inquire, why do you find his strategy sound?

Mii: She is new to the Bastard Mafia, indicative in her posts. Some of which are cyclic in reasoning (link), and her first case was weak in foundation. She has a way with words, as a newbie, I'll give her that (Latin enhancement) but she fumbled in mistakes in reasoning by not making it clear:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'm wary of ToonyMan - I believe him to be scum. He is acting a bit too relaxed for my tastes, and those tastes involve 'comically bitter'. He does not seem serious, but too laid back, in other words.

Laid-back??  I can assure you my blood pressure is through the roof!
[ ... ]
MII thinks I am relaxed which is RIDICULOUS.  It's a state of emergency here!

Why, it is a state of emergency! Which is why I am so curious as to why you harbor such an attitude in such a serious crisis. I am glad you understand where I am coming from.

Really? Do you have anything to back your vote up with except for the fact that I called your ratty technique relaxed and expressed my distaste for your attitude? I smell OMGUS.

Toonyman: are you a true American and accept Intelligent Design, or a liberal commie who believes in the theory of Evolution? If you were scum, who would you kill tonight?

Of course BOOKTHRAS, everything science does is magic and does not require explanations.
If I were vile liberal scum I would kill PRANZ for not having enough red.

I vote TOONYMAN because he is the best leader clearly.

ANDREW425, why is your name Andrew?!  Is it a trick to deceive our great and proud and great COUNTRY?
And MII, WHAT IS YOUR THOUGHTS ON THE IDEA OF FREEDOM??

My first impression of you, and it screams scum. Nothing yet has swerved my opinion to think you are town.

It is ridiculous. Calling Andrew out for his name, just to later taking away the (pressure?) vote in this post just because he asserted his 'manliness'? If this is a joke, I am afraid I cannot find the punchline. RVS is for staring the game off with actual questions pertaining to the subject at hand - in this case, who the hell is the hiding, cowardly liberal scum. That was an all-flavour vote you made, not to be confused with a vote with actual fact behind it with some flavour on the side.

Voting Pranz because he doesn't have enough red. Yes, that definitely makes sense. The game just started at this point, so of course he didn't have enough red. In my opinion, you don't have enough red. ToonyMan, ToonyMan, ToonyMan, ToonyMan - someone hasn't not been doing their scumhunting homework!

But in her duel (if it can be called such) with ToonyMan, both parties struck with vagueness. Mii looked aggressive, but didn't go in detail on her side; ToonyMan has the same reasons I voted him (which can be seen by my earlier posts so as not to lengthen this), generally, not explaining himself while demanding others do so.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Nice acting.  Linking posts does not make it any more convincing.  You're just listing what has happened and trying to make it seem 'aggressive'.  I recast my vote on you because you were being scummy, your entire reason for voting me is absolutely pointless and holds no 'evidence' which even you want from me!  Pranz's gut feeling is as good as yours.  Your vote definitely has less base than mine.

Everyone! This is the perfect reply! I was being scummy. That's all I really needed to hear. I don't want proof or anything to convince me that Toony's vote isn't a bluff and that he's indeed not scum.

My post should have given you enough proof of why I believe you to be scum. Only a few of your actual posts were scumhunting, and as I before stated: the rest of your posts are useless flavour. I want some explanation, and damn it, I want it now.

What.  Can I have facts from you then?  I haven't seen anything from you that's substantial.

I'll take a leaf from your book - you are scummy.

See I don't see anything there.  Where's your evidence?  Etc. etc.

It's a bad move to make and you're trying to vote people without actually doing anything Mii.

Then it devolved around snipping at each other. She doesn't look that scummy in comparison to ToonyMan though.

tl;dr: Mii is making newbie mistakes in a case, some WIFOM there, but not enough to garner my vote as she seems to be doing her best to scumhunt the ToonyMan. Mii: Why are you only targeting ToonyMan and Pranz by the way?

((Thank you LurkerTracker by Think0028))

Also, Andrew425 just has two posts with little to back up any of his votes (thus, my RVS assumption on him). Though, he has been active a lot more by seeing his profile.

Question though, Bookthras: Why are you keen to ask mostly everyone of what they think?

PPE (II): ToonyMan