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[Pranz]

You act like that is the only outstanding defense you have. Why so worried about a majority vote? RVS, pressure. And to me, it seems you're cracking.

Cracking hard.

Also, repeating again, if you do cop claim, do it fully. I'm doubting it just by the lack of info you're giving (being vague).

You also point out to just one page. Not scumhunting and relying on your 'claim'?

I claimed cop here. Yes, i'm scared for a majority vote. In the ways i usually play mafia (EpicMafia), if the majority votes you, fery few cases they suddenly turn around. I'm new here and must learn your standards and norm, obviously claiming power roles D1 isn't very popular here. Why would i crack more if i were scum?


MII:

I'm not trying to bandwagon anyone, the reason I'm voting toonyman is this entire post:

Toonyman: are you a true American and accept Intelligent Design, or a liberal commie who believes in the theory of Evolution? If you were scum, who would you kill tonight?

Of course BOOKTHRAS, everything science does is magic and does not require explanations.
If I were vile liberal scum I would kill PRANZ for not having enough red.

I vote TOONYMAN because he is the best leader clearly.

ANDREW425, why is your name Andrew?!  Is it a trick to deceive our great and proud and great COUNTRY?
And MII, WHAT IS YOUR THOUGHTS ON THE IDEA OF FREEDOM??

He pressure votes me to do what? He pressure votes Andrew and expects what in return?

I believe that answers your question?


Here follows impressions of the players:

McUrist: Seems to try very hard to gain "the leader role". Seems less eager to decide whom he FoS'es but go with the "I got my eye on you!"
Dariush: Few posts but aggresive. Being an ass and voting me mainly now because he thinks i'm a noob with an experienced partner. Who do you think my partner is?

Uh, must continue later, got interrupted.

[Pranz]

EDIT: Vote Toaster ffor a good strategy.

[Dariush]

vomit

Hey, it's so easy to pose like a badass and demand from everyone their scumpicks instead of actually scumhunting, isn't it?

Also, you voted Tiruin and McNoble twice, and additionally Tiruin with the same hilariously crappy reasons both times. Not so badass. (actually, it's three times for McNoble. What the fuck, really)

And Dariush is defending me which is creepy.

Wait what.

Mii, you REALLY don't grasp the concept of RVS, do you?

Andrew, why are you dropping in the middle of a day only to ask several RVS questions?

Also, looks like I forgot to greenvote Dariush.

[Toaster]

PFP today, but I'll try to keep up.

[Bookthras]

Tiruin:

No time to do a full vote count, but all votes are to be expected, except for the fact that Tiruns still got a vote on Andrew.

Thanks for trying, dude, much appreciated.

But Moderator: we know you're busy, but this game has a lot of votes to keep in one's head, and we've had what, one votecount in the entire game? Please help us keep up with the chaos.


Which reminds me: Dariush:

Also, you voted Tiruin and McNoble twice, and additionally Tiruin with the same hilariously crappy reasons both times. Not so badass. (actually, it's three times for McNoble. What the fuck, really)

Dude, I paint people with red to remind them I'm voting them, or to reinstate the reasons why. Only one counts, sure, but it helps keep it clear, applies pressure and invites reactions, like yours.

Hey, it's so easy to pose like a badass and demand from everyone their scumpicks instead of actually scumhunting, isn't it?

You would know. I note you didn't answer my question.



For clarity, then, these are my current votes:
McNoble: for distancing himself from behaviour when described as scummy, lying, and overdefensiveness.
ToonyMan: for weak content, jumping in defense of McNoble (only one who expressed an opinion) when he was attacked, and some buddying attempts on Toaster and I.
Dariush: For being an ass, lying when claiming I've not scumhunted, and failing to answer questions.
And brand new: Andrew425: for general fishy behaviour, attempts to stay in the shadows, and voting the claimed cop.

Was voting, but no more:
Tiruin: Was fishy, but answered questions and participated in trying to understand the game.  Unvote Tiruin.
Pranz: Clueless, but not a priority target. I like he wants to get better, and I hope he does, or will hang. Unvote Pranz.


Toaster:

Okay, screw it.  Let's just break this game wide the hell open- got confirmation on the timing of this.
Remember my suggestion?

Beautiful. I'm fully on board with this plan. Let's break this sucker! Vote Toaster.

Also, to prevent you from taking all the glory, I hereby claim that I have a one-shot vigilante kill, and I'm ready to use it tonight on the best target to further the execution of this plan. Suggestions welcome.

[ToonyMan]

I don't trust what you're saying Toaster.  I believe in a Bay12 mafia Josh or Jim or somebody made up this 'game plan' on the first day and it turned out they were just trying to fufill their win condition as quickly as possible.  It was quite amazing to see the other players turn into mindless sheep as they all did what was asked of them.  There is no easy way out in this.
Like, if you don't get the straw vote majority then will you be able to resurrect someone before getting night killed?  Since the mafia will do that and that would prevent the day 2 town win.  I want clarification on that.  It looks so far that you will get the majority but I disagree with this openly.  You can easily have another plan I wouldn't be able to predict and it's much better to hunt scum on who you actually think they are.  I'm going to ask why you didn't bring this up sooner or if you were hesitant to 'break the game' for the good of town, heh.

PPE:
Another claim again?  Well I guess this is a quick-ish mafia...

ToonyMan: for weak content, jumping in defense of McNoble (only one who expressed an opinion) when he was attacked, and some buddying attempts on Toaster and I.

I don't remember ever defending McNoble since I was clearly telling Tiruin about his hypocritical buddying himself.  And I'm not buddying you guys.  I'm saying what I agree and disagree with.

Was voting, but no more:
Tiruin: Was fishy, but answered questions and participated in trying to understand the game.  Unvote Tiruin.
Pranz: Clueless, but not a priority target. I like he wants to get better, and I hope he does, or will hang. Unvote Pranz.

Wow really.  This all sounds like a freakin' set-up schemed day 1.

[Bookthras]

I like that the plan scares you, Toony.  If Toaster is scum, his plan doesn't really benefit him at all beyond NK immunity (which isn't high priority for scum), does it? If he dies when he resurrects someone, he'll flip, and we'll have that piece of data to understand whether the plan should continue, yes? If he is a third party and happens to win with this plan, I'm fine with that as long as it's not a game-ending wincon (unlikely, I think), because the plan still works.


On your other points:

it's much better to hunt scum on who you actually think they are.  I'm going to ask why you didn't bring this up sooner

We are hunting, and found several good candidates. And he did bring it up sooner, just keeping the resurrection part hidden until the plan fully formed. I'm fine with that.

In view of the above, I would really like that votecount, moderator, so we can perhaps consolidate a bit as the day is close to an end. I think Andrew and Toony are the most likely to be scum, and if we lynch them both and one flips town, the plan works. If both flip scum, we've pretty much won already.

[Mii]

Today's been busy.

Pranz: Yes, thank you.

See I don't see anything there.  Where's your evidence?  Etc. etc.

It's a bad move to make and you're trying to vote people without actually doing anything Mii.

I'll weed out the fact from the flavour from my last post if the evidence from it still goes through one ear and out the other.

OMGUS is you voting me for commenting negatively on your scumhunting style - which, may I add, did not seem like scumhunting at all but more like overkill flavour. It seems as if you want to find a reason for voting me (after I voted you) but you can't find one except for what you have read of the other posts - that my reasoning is not correct (here is where I ask once more for where you didn't like my reasoning and why whatever I said was scummy enough for a vote - prove my OMGUS theory wrong). If you cannot give me proof of my transgressions and of your so-called innocence, how am I supposed to believe you are just another conservative trying to find the scum? If my vote has less base than mine, prove it. Show me your base.

This is to answer Dariush's question, as well. I know what RVS is. Random voting stage. You're trying to use random questions to weed out any even minor scumtells from the other. I didn't participate as much as much as you (ToonyMan), seemed to, but I received many a scumtell from your first post, as I've already expressed.

RVS isn't just flavour, though, is it? You're looking for the tone of an answer as well as the answer to your questions. I understand that. But what answer did you expect from Andrew that would give scumtell? Was it just an approach at humour?

Please tell me your opinion of Toaster's plan. The pros and the cons, and how it could possibly be a set-up. Are you scum trying to change the town's mind on the matter of what might be an easy win?
Give me your views on the styles of each of the candidates, but also add on why you think they would be scum if you just want to say 'they are scummy'. 

Also, to prevent you from taking all the glory, I hereby claim that I have a one-shot vigilante kill, and I'm ready to use it tonight on the best target to further the execution of this plan. Suggestions welcome.

Suggestions welcome? Aren't you wary of possible scum giving you 'suggestions' of who to kill that they want dead from our side if you are telling the truth?

Toaster: Nice plan, but the scum probably have their own plans. We do not know what they have on their side, and if you're telling the truth, they know what we have. They might have a counterattack to counter the town's easily. Why would you open us up to your plan so quickly? Might it have possibly been easier to wait until we lynched a few scummy candidates (preferably them being scum when lynched) before we made such a gamble as to losing some of our own (town)? I'll vote you, for now. That vote can just as easily be taken away, though, before the day ends if I see fit.

[Bookthras]

[On Toaster's plan] how it could possibly be a set-up?

I've been thinking about this, and I can only find two ways in which it could be a set up. I'll list them so people can keep them in mind or shoot them down if they have holes:

a) He may be a third party with a game-ending win condition if he wins the straw poll. I find that quite unlikely, though.

b) He may be scum with a role similar to an advanced-dopp in Paranormal: suicide yourself to "infect" another player (making them scum), but a corpse instead of a live player. In this case, once a townie dies ("flips town") Toaster "resurrects" him, dying in the process. To us, the revived player is "confirmed town", but in reality is now scum. We carry out the plan (lynch everyone else but the revived player); scum wins.

However, for alternative B to work, then Toaster would not only have to have such a role, but had to flip "town" after using his infection power. That'd be a seriously overpowered role, even for a bastard... not that one should rule anything out in a bastard. But I still think it's really unlikely.

That said, I still think the plan is the best option to blow the game open, and win quickly and painlessly. It's no longer a sure thing, but still worth the risk, I think. I continue to support the plan, but wanted to bring these two items forward in the interest of full disclosure and informed decision-making.

Also, to prevent you from taking all the glory, I hereby claim that I have a one-shot vigilante kill, and I'm ready to use it tonight on the best target to further the execution of this plan. Suggestions welcome.

Suggestions welcome? Aren't you wary of possible scum giving you 'suggestions' of who to kill that they want dead from our side if you are telling the truth?

Sure, but accepting suggestions does not mean I'll follow them, and the suggestions themselves would be interesting to dissect in case things go wrong. I do want suggestions, preferably with reasons behind them, and I will consider them, but ultimately I will shoot who I decide to shoot.

[ToonyMan]

@Mii:
Everything you just said is rehashed.  I have already explained why your vote is stupid.  I have already explained my reasons for voting you.  I've already explained my issues on Toaster and I'm still waiting on him.

The day ends tonight but there's not many people here, where are they?  An indifferent end to days is very bad for town.

[Pranz]

Continuation:
MII: Obviously a fan of language/RP. Not sure if this is why his posts seem so overly active and aggresive.
Toaster: If he tells the truth, kinda makes me nervous what power roles third party or maf got to balance it out. But if we can pull his strategy off we may win and i'm having a hard time seeing how Toaster would benefit from this plan if he's scum.

[Tiruin]

Mod: Requesting Updated Vote, and Timecount

I'm busy rereading everyone's posts and votes. Still here though.

[Mii]

ToonyMan: I know it's rehashed. As I said, I just took away the flavour and showed you the reasons behind my vote. Please direct me to your explanation. Also, I know that you already explained why you didn't like it. I want you to put in a list the pros and the cons. What can go wrong but also what can go right. Compare.

Bookthras: This plan was never a sure thing. A is something I may or may not be concerned about. The straw poll seems almost too good to be true, and there must be some catch. This is a bastard game, after all. I'll consider B a bit more after rereading the thread. That'd be a pretty big thing to hide, and for Toaster to be pulling out the card now in the first day seems a bit rushed in itself. Impatient. Like he's not sure if he can hide it very well anymore. In all honesty, I'm not sure what to think of it at the moment.

Someone can lie about the reason to kill another easily. This is mafia - for the scum, that and looking like town is their goal. We don't want town dead.

unvote Pranz: Forgot to do this once you answered me. It was only a pressure vote, and your scumreadings aren't over nine thousand.

Moderator: I second (or more like third?) a votecount.

[Bookthras]

Someone can lie about the reason to kill another easily. This is mafia - for the scum, that and looking like town is their goal. We don't want town dead.

Oh crap! I never thought of that! You are so right.


Just to be clear: for the plan to work, a townie has to die, but that does not mean we have to lynch a townie or make a townie die! No, we lynch the two (or three or four) scummiest people we can find; they all flip scum, we win. If one flips town, then instead of the usual "oops, mislynch, oh well carry on" of Day One in most games, we get to trade that mislynch for Toaster's resurrection and subsequent plan. Likewise with my kill, I will target probable scum, not town; if I hit scum, great! If I hit town, too bad, but not the end of the world (and provides a possible additional target for Toaster's rez if we lynch only scum today). Of course people can and do lie, but that is taken into account when weighing their suggestions.



Toaster: (and others jump in if you wish, too)
One thing has been bugging me a bit though. Say Toaster's sincere, and we do resurrect someone that truly becomes a confirmed townie by tomorrow... then what? How do we enforce the everyone-votes-everyone-but-him thing?

a) Say most people do, but two people don't; then easy, unvote "everybody" and vote those two, they must be scum, yes? But maybe not everyone will follow-though on that either, so we end up with a sort of varied checkerboard of votes. I'm not quite sure how it'd work, especially if there are still some scum/third parties alive.

b) We may have "double-votes" to contend with. If I understand it correctly, in order for multiple people to be lynched, then they all have to have the same number of votes... but whoever Tiruin votes will have one more than the others, and will be the only one lynched. Oops. But easy: one other person can then unvote whoever Tiruin votes. But due to timing or mischief, two do. Ooops. Same coordination problem as above.

c) This one is scary: playing the clock. Say everyone follows the plan, and tomorrow we have a confirmed townie with no votes, and everyone else has six or whatever votes on them. Then, a minute before end of day, the scum jump in and unvote themselves. Boom. The entire town minus one is dead, the scum are alive. They win.


I hate the last one in particular, because to fix that would require people be active and alert, and willing, right during the end of day. Between differing time zones, the mod being sometimes busy, and willful sabotage, things may get quite hairy indeed. I hate last-minute ninja-fests and "extend! no! shorten!" battles.

Hmmm... Please people who support the plan, give us your thoughts on how Day Two should go, and whether you are committed to see it through.

[Toaster]

Book:

B's the easy one:

Approval Voting - "Vote for one" becomes "Vote for one or more". You may vote for any number of targets, though you may still vote for any target once. Any target who gets more than 50% of the vote will be lynched - this means that you can potentially lynch everyone day 1 if you really felt like it.

It doesn't matter if one person gets, for example, 6/7 votes and another 5/7- they're both gone.


A:  As long as enough people participate, we should have the proper number of votes.  This is one reason I wanted third parties to claim now- if there's a lyncher, for example, we may able to lynch the target tonight so the lyncher is gone tomorrow- assuming the role works that way.  Survivors and SK types are just SOL.

C:  See above.  As long as enough people participate, we should be okay- remember, scum and the third parties presumably can't communicate to coordinate this.


Toony:

Like, if you don't get the straw vote majority then will you be able to resurrect someone before getting night killed?  Since the mafia will do that and that would prevent the day 2 town win.  I want clarification on that.  It looks so far that you will get the majority but I disagree with this openly.  You can easily have another plan I wouldn't be able to predict and it's much better to hunt scum on who you actually think they are.  I'm going to ask why you didn't bring this up sooner or if you were hesitant to 'break the game' for the good of town, heh.

I don't need the protection- I can res any lynched townie at night and they will come back at dawn.  I didn't bring it up sooner because I didn't think of it right after my initial idea, and then I needed clarification on the timing.


Mii:  I'm going to be arrogant a second and maintain that I'm a high-priority nightkill target.  I didn't want to risk losing the opportunity to res someone by waiting a full cycle.