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[Urist McUselessNoble]

Mod, please explain where my vote on Pranz went, and confirm or correct this line in the vote count:

5. Andrew425 <- Tiruin, Bookthras, Tiruin

Everyone: Remember to review your pressure votes - they don't automatically go away when you switch your attention to someone else, and as things stand Toony has enough votes on him that he'll be lynched on mostly RVS votes. (PPE: Ninjaed by Dariush.) If that's unintentional, it's crappy town play. If it's intentional, then it's a bandwagon, which is also crap town play.

In particular, Bookthras and Tiruin have been voting more people than there can possibly be mafia+third party in the game at this point. Please be advised that this is starting to look an awful lot like lazy, bandwagony scum play.

[GlyphGryph]

Sorry, missed your Pranz vote amongst all the expanding collapsing spoilers. Mea culpa. And I am pretty sure that line is correct.

[Tiruin]

Great, PPE.

I was going to unvote, after re-reading the thread and the 50% vote thing. Looks like those 504 time-outs got to me.

So a shortened version before I miss any of my multiple votes.
Unvote Dariush: You missed an RVS question.
Unvote Mii

And I'm sure I had my vote on Urist Mc U.Noble.

[GlyphGryph]

Bluh, sorry, fixed that. Your vote is now on Urist.

[Mii]

Good morning.

Dariush: That many posts is a lot for this amount of time? It seemed to be moderate, while playing.

Pranz:

ToonyMan is gut feeling

Do you have more than a gut feeling, or you just feel like throwing your vote out? What gave you this gut feeling?

McUseless: From what you have read of the discussion so far, what are your opinions on the styles of each of the candidates?

[Tiruin]

Mod: Day ends when? I've lost track of the time 
Fixing old post.

Unvote Dariush: You missed an RVS question.
Unvote Mii

And I'm sure I had my vote on Urist Mc U.Noble.

...Of whom I now unvote. (U. Mc U.Noble). I messed up that post (Grr net.)

In particular, Bookthras and Tiruin have been voting more people than there can possibly be mafia+third party in the game at this point. Please be advised that this is starting to look an awful lot like lazy, bandwagony scum play.

Know, too, that anyone can multi-vote. Pressure votes for (mostly) everyone...

ToonyMan is scum. Andrew seems like his buddy for his only and seemingly sure vote, and how he worded his only post.

Will post later on, ~12-15 hours from now. Good night everyone!

[Dariush]

In particular, Bookthras and Tiruin have been voting more people than there can possibly be mafia+third party in the game at this point. Please be advised that this is starting to look an awful lot like lazy, bandwagony scum play.

Have you heard about such a thing as RVS?

[Pranz]

unvote Bookthras. There

Pranz, why are you attempting to steer the town and bandwagon onto Toonywagon without decent justification?

Why are you putting a majority vote on me? Do you think it's beneficial for town to kill someone D1? My vote on ToonyMan was near the beginning of the game, why did you vote now when i already racked up some votes?

Bookthras and Tiruin:
why are you voting for >80% of the players?

[Toaster]

Mii:

I did not answer from my own experience! In other words, in all honesty, that role is something I have never before heard of or seen myself in a game. I answered, thinking of every circumstance. The former is more common, as I am led to believe. The latter just crossed my mind, because that is the exact opposite of needing scum alive for your win. I just thought I myself would glance upon it. You are welcome.

But as our wonderful country states - ignorantia juris non excusat. So alas, my mistake might not even be registered as a mistake but as feigned ignorance. Even if I were scum with that role (which I am not - I will excuse your lapse in judgment in thinking I am scum if you excuse my short-lived obliviousness), why would I feel the need to share it with you?

This is a decent, if wordy, defense.  However, to answer your last question- so you can say "why would I share it with you," of course!  That is WIFOM, and it is scummy.  I think I'll leave my vote on you for now.


ToonyMan:

Toony:  Tunnelling is one thing, but you're just lashing out now.  Why?

LIBERALISM.  Liberals are among us and must be eradicated.

This is a crap answer.  Awaiting your next post.


Unvote Dariush.  Fair enough.  I do agree that the flavor is skewing the signal to noise ratio.


Urist:

Everyone:
Does anybody have any objections to a mass Issue claim?

I object to doing it today.  Tomorrow, perhaps.  Today?  No.

On that note...

So, to make sure you don't slip out of sight again, I'd like you to tell me your Stance on the Issue of Economics. I'd also appreciate Toaster chipping in on the same subject.

...I don't feel obliged to answer that question.  It's not quite rolefishing, but given the unknown effects of issues at this point, I'm not answering it.

Why are you more interested in using the green vote to shift issues than to protect someone from nightkills?

In particular, Bookthras and Tiruin have been voting more people than there can possibly be mafia+third party in the game at this point. Please be advised that this is starting to look an awful lot like lazy, bandwagony scum play.

I don't like this.  It's hard to quantify why, but I just don't like it.


Pranz:

Why are you putting a majority vote on me? Do you think it's beneficial for town to kill someone D1? My vote on ToonyMan was near the beginning of the game, why did you vote now when i already racked up some votes?

Why shouldn't we lynch someone D1?  If we don't, then we're just letting scum choose who gets taken ut, and that's a bad thing.

Everyone:
Anyone who votes themself for the straw poll i find suspicious. I think we should make it a general rule (and enforces it by votes) that you do not vote for yourself in the strawpoll. This will lead to actual reasoning behind votes.

Why can't we have reasoning behind self-votes?  For example, I know I am town, and that I can trust myself.  If I see anyone else I can reasonably trust, I'll greenvote them, but that hasn't happened yet.



Actually, here's a thought question (that everyone should read):  If the majority thinks that X person is town, why shouldn't we, instead of greenvoting them, red vote everyone else?  That will end the game with that person left alive, and their alignment (if we're correct, town) winning.  If someone claims cop with a town result on them, we could greenvote the town result person to protect them and lynch the cop claimant.  If the cop is town, then we could lynch everyone but said townie.

[Toaster]

PPE:  That second to last sentence should read:

If someone claims cop with a town result on a player, we could greenvote the town result person to protect them and lynch the cop claimant.

[Dariush]

Why are you putting a majority vote on me? Do you think it's beneficial for town to kill someone D1? My vote on ToonyMan was near the beginning of the game, why did you vote now when i already racked up some votes?

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME

You voted Toony literally two posts above mine. Yes, it is beneficial for town to kill someone, and the proper term is 'lynch'. You ignored the question about steering the town (because honestly, 'let's make a rule that blahblahblah' is not something you should say). And finally, the amount of hipocrisy in those meagre three sentences is indescribable. Go fuck yourself, and by 'fuck yourself' I mean 'fuck yourself and go hang'.

[Mii]

I think I'll leave my vote on you for now.

You do that.

Who seems the most scummy to you (if not me) at this current point in time? Why?

[Urist McUselessNoble]

Mii:

• Dariush has only one post so far, so no read yet, and not far enough into the day that I'm ready to call lurker on him for that, since it actually had substance.
• Toaster has one of my questions outstanding, but otherwise same as for Dariush.
• Bookthras seriously needs to start building cases on the people he's randomvoting. The flavour is wonderful, mate, but I don't think it helps all that much with catching scum.
• Pranz is bandwagoning, randomvoting with no apparent intent to reevaluate said randomvotes in light of new information, OMGUSing and not scumhunting. Either newbscum or a waste of space. I feel like I have enough on him to let my vote stay there until and unless he starts doing something productive for the town. Out of five posts during this game, four have had scumtells and the fifth was flavourwank.
• Andrew425 has the same question outstanding that I asked Toaster, and his only post so far was wholly devoid of substance.
• ToonyMan has been kinda flaky in some of his posts, but not quite enough to make me want to jump on the Toonywagon you guys have going. He's probably the closest to get a FoS right now.
• Mii: I don't like the way you jumped on the Toonywagon. Your case against him is weak. If you think he's scum, go build the case on him. Because there is a case that could be built on him, and even if I think it's too contrived for me to make it with a straight face, it's not objectively insane. But you're not making it.
• Tiruin: Is that double-vote ability of yours a one-shot, or are you a double-voter? If it is a one-shot, why did you blow it today? You also need to start building cases on the people you randomvote.

Tiruin:

Pressure votes for (mostly) everyone...

Pressuring them to respond to... what, precisely?

ToonyMan is scum.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but you're not presenting a terribly compelling case. By which I mean to say that you're not presenting any case at all.

Dariush:

Have you heard about such a thing as RVS?

Yup. Which is why I didn't actually vote them, just put them on notice that I wanted them to start presenting actual cases for their votes now that we're leaving RVS.

Spoiler: Wall'o'Text for Toaster about the use of green votes (click to show/hide)

I object to doing [an issue massclaim] today.  Tomorrow, perhaps.  Today?  No.

On that note... [...] ...I don't feel obliged to answer that question. It's not quite rolefishing, but given the unknown effects of issues at this point, I'm not answering it.

Fair enough, and consistent with your stance on D1 issue massclaim.

However, for the record I think we do have enough information about what issues do to know that a massclaim will benefit town more than scum. We know that they do not correlate to role, and that they do correlate to alignment. If Issues have any further mechanical function, neither town nor scum would know at this point, unless the mod has been a real bastard and told the scum more of the rules than he told the town. Which is contrary to his statements of intent for the game.

If Issues turn out to have previously unknown mechanical functions, these can be used to ferret out fakeclaims made when we were still ignorant of those functions. And since Issues correlate to alignment but not roles, scum would need to fakeclaim to protect their alignment, while town would not be forced to fakeclaim to protect power roles.

Why are you more interested in using the green vote to shift issues than to protect someone from nightkills?

Because the issue at hand was whether we should be voting for ourselves. And in the absence of claimed or inferred power votes, the only person I see any compelling reason to greenvote for NK protection is me. I know that I'm town, I only believe that you are. And no, greenvote as a tiebreaker is not a terribly useful thing to do, because it's only one NK protection so the scum will still have six perfectly valid targets.

A power role claim would change the picture on the green votes, but a D1 roleclaim is a horribad idea that needs to be purged with fire.

In particular, Bookthras and Tiruin have been voting more people than there can possibly be mafia+third party in the game at this point. Please be advised that this is starting to look an awful lot like lazy, bandwagony scum play.

I don't like this.  It's hard to quantify why, but I just don't like it.

See reply to Dariush above.

Actually, here's a thought question (that everyone should read):  If the majority thinks that X person is town, why shouldn't we, instead of greenvoting them, red vote everyone else?  That will end the game with that person left alive, and their alignment (if we're correct, town) winning.

...

I really, really want to like that plan. It's devious, it's smart, it's totally unsporting, it abuses the game mechanics in new and creative ways. And if we just pick a player totally at random, we have in excess of 70 % probability of winning the game outright.

But the way to find town (other than just picking at random and trusting that the laws of probability do not play favourites) is to scumhunt. Our town reads should get better, not worse, as play progresses, and we can still do what you suggest right up to and including at LyLo. So we shouldn't do it today.

If someone claims cop with a town result on them, we could greenvote the town result person to protect them and lynch the cop claimant.  If the cop is town, then we could lynch everyone but said townie.

Glyph has not promised that the green votes (or equivalent) will be available on D2.

[Urist McUselessNoble]

EBWOP:
Mii:
1. Dariush and 2. Toaster have resolved the issues I pointed to.
2. Toaster and 5. Andrew: Question retracted, but Andrew is still scummy for lack of substance.

[Pranz]

Why are you putting a majority vote on me? Do you think it's beneficial for town to kill someone D1? My vote on ToonyMan was near the beginning of the game, why did you vote now when i already racked up some votes?

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME

You voted Toony literally two posts above mine. Yes, it is beneficial for town to kill someone, and the proper term is 'lynch'. You ignored the question about steering the town (because honestly, 'let's make a rule that blahblahblah' is not something you should say). And finally, the amount of hipocrisy in those meagre three sentences is indescribable. Go fuck yourself, and by 'fuck yourself' I mean 'fuck yourself and go hang'.

No i didn't Read the thread. Or just page 6  if you can't bother reading the thread.

I'm not trying to bandwagon anyone, the reason I'm voting toonyman is this entire post:

Toonyman: are you a true American and accept Intelligent Design, or a liberal commie who believes in the theory of Evolution? If you were scum, who would you kill tonight?

Of course BOOKTHRAS, everything science does is magic and does not require explanations.
If I were vile liberal scum I would kill PRANZ for not having enough red.

I vote TOONYMAN because he is the best leader clearly.

ANDREW425, why is your name Andrew?!  Is it a trick to deceive our great and proud and great COUNTRY?
And MII, WHAT IS YOUR THOUGHTS ON THE IDEA OF FREEDOM??

He pressure votes me to do what? He pressure votes Andrew and expects what in return?

Admittedly, i'm not very good at mafia, but i must ask you to place some trust in me. If i survive until next day I'll hopefully have some useful information for you all.