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[malimbar04]

Woh, shitstorm ensues. Why jump through hoops of who knows how many DF fans and authors just so I can work on a crappy copy of a story? It's not scrapped yet, but I'm going to think about it before I continue working on it.

[Capntastic]

I could write an entire novel, or post a painting I've done, right here on a public forum, and it it would not 'enter the public domain', much in the same way that you walking by a store window that has a TV playing an episode of Cheers doesn't mean that that episode of Cheers is in the public domain. Rights are reserved, implicitly.

As has been stated in this thread, and all previous ones, the Something Awful forums are indeed a private forum with a pay wall, and while the LPers involved have given LParchive the rights to host a publicly viewable copy of Boatmurdered, that in no way makes it legal to copy it and redistribute it as you see fit.  They've explicitly said no to this before.

As with all of these threads, it amazes me how obstinate people are, trying to come up with all sorts of blatantly false legal reasons, or appeals to 'we're the DF community trying to spread the message', or even "who cares if it's illegal??", rather than literally send out a couple of emails asking permission from the people who originated the work you think so highly of.  It's pretty low.

[Deadmeat1471]

A Lp is a work written for the public, for their enjoyment, for non profit. People like this degrade the whole issue by pretending it is a real work and people should beg them for permission before reposting it somewhere with the OPs name on it.

It's disingenuous, it defeats the whole purpose of Lps and its just fking retarded.

As long as nothing is edited, and credit is given, I don't see why they even need to get permission, let alone have their plan screwed over by them refusing.
At best its a courtesy, and I doubt the legality of 'inherently rights reserved' when people openly distribute something for all.

I'm all for courtesy, but it works both ways. You be a dick about people doing work for you, then thats just silly.

[Capntastic]

You're wrong.   Sorry.

Edit:  To clarify, it literally has no bearing why the work was created. John Lennon's "Imagine" implores you to imagine a world with no property, and it's still a work that someone owns the rights to, and if you want to reproduce it, repackage it, distribute it, play it on your college radio station, or whatever, you still need permission.

[Vector]

A Lp is a work written for the public, for their enjoyment, for non profit. People like this degrade the whole issue by pretending it is a real work and people should beg them for permission before reposting it somewhere with the OPs name on it.

It's disingenuous, it defeats the whole purpose of Lps and its just fking retarded.

Why are you so excited about this?  It doesn't seem like you have anything at stake here, but you're running around flinging insults left and right.

[Deadmeat1471]

It made me angry because it appears several times people have tried to distribute this better, while being genuine and 'not claiming any profit' or price tag for themselves.

As a result the SA tards have outright refused, tried to put a pricetag on it and done their best to stop people distributing it more. Those are the acts of a total dick, to people who are trying to spend their time on something other people enjoy.

I don't like people being screwed over because someone didn't say 'pretty please' before reposting stuff.

Moreover, I write Lp's myself, some have been in more detail, some alot less, as far as I am concerned these were written for the enjoyment of all and whether people ask me to use or quote or repost that is not really my concern.
I didn't write a book and publish it, I didn't claim sole right to whatever I wrote, I put it on a forum for people to see and use as they see fit.
I expect the same openess from others, and I don't feel this is an unreasonable position in the slightest.

[Deadmeat1471]

You're wrong.   Sorry.

Edit:  To clarify, it literally has no bearing why the work was created. John Lennon's "Imagine" implores you to imagine a world with no property, and it's still a work that someone owns the rights to, and if you want to reproduce it, repackage it, distribute it, play it on your college radio station, or whatever, you still need permission.

Which part? A statement like this requires further any explanation to be credible.

[Vector]

1. I do not think the words "screwed over" and "total dick" mean what you think they do.

2. It would be nice if they agreed with you, yes, but they already said no multiple times.  They produced everything themselves, and there's no ginormous, faceless media company in the way.  As such, as this is a personal relationship you're working from, it's probably a much kinder thing to ask.  Even if they say no, they'll probably feel better because someone asked them about it.  One should think before going against someone else's expressed wishes when they're speaking as a person, rather than as a brand.

I don't think they should have put a pricetag on it, but on the other hand, people should ask others about these things.  You don't go distributing old family recipes willy-nilly, do you?

[Deadmeat1471]

I'm not proposing he doesn't ask, I've stated several times that the courtesy of asking is right.

I've frequently asked game creators permission to use stuff in their games, but they are paid products that I will be displaying to other non-paying people. They have never refused.

However if someone didn't ask, it's totally unreasonable to tell them they're not allowed.
You can't say here this is everyone, then proceed to say but you cant share the link anywere or paste it into word to share to others. That is retarded.

And I don't get this elitist 'SA IS PAID SO OTHER RULES APPLY', I remember reading boatmurdered when it first came out... I don't remember paying anything for the priviledge.

[Enzo]

You're wrong.   Sorry.

Which part? A statement like this requires further any explanation to be credible.

Alright, I'd hate to beat a dead horse here, but reproducing someone else's work without their permission is copyright infringement. Full stop. Let that sink in. Calling people names does not negate that.

Saying they're being dicks or retards by choosing to not allow someone to redistribute their work (which, if I understand it, they've mostly been doing because people in the past haven't been considerate enough to just ask first) makes you sound like someone with a severely inflated sense of entitlement.

However if someone didn't ask, it's totally unreasonable to tell them they're not allowed.

The point of asking is to determine whether or not you are allowed.

[Deadmeat1471]

No money is changing hands, no credit is taken, infact credit is given to the original posters, just a direct copy into another format.

For a forum LP, If this is illegal, if this is copyright infringement, it shouldn't be. Full stop.

I'm not going to say anything else on the matter.

[Capntastic]

You really shouldn't call other people out and say they're not being credible when you're literally calling people retarded and fucktards because they don't agree with you.  In order to have a good faith discussion, I will clarify my statements further, and explicitly render your arguments invalid.  I will do this line by line, so each point is easy to digest, and counter, if you wish.

The LP in question was demonstrably not written 'for the public'.  This has been proven in this, and previous threads.  I do not need to retread this further.

You assert that their work is not 'a real work', which is beside the point, and also false, given that there is the writing of several people involved, as well as fan art and similar.

Public domain does not magically happen if something is posted online.  You harbor serious misunderstandings about what public domain actually is.

What is the 'purpose' of LPs and what does it have to do with someone reproducing someone else's work?  Your idea of what an LP 'is' has no bearing on the reality of the situation.

Beyond that, the onus is on you to prove any of your assertions are cogent beyond "they're being mean because they want people to ask permission to use their writing!!".

If someone doesn't ask permission from the creator of a work and they go ahead and use it, this is, by definition, copyright infringement.   Saying that this should be ignored because it's "a dick move", doesn't mean anything more than saying that a cop should tear up the speeding ticket he's writing because it's "a dick move".

I'm not going to sit down with you while you're spewing venom and insults and explain to you why they're in the right, and their actions are justified both legally and ethically.  You've called them out, and haven't mounted a single reason based on anything other than personal opinion.  I've proven your position false, and you're free to either concede, or continue having a fit even though the original poster has realized that maybe there's more to consider than "just do it already" when taking someone else's work and redistributing it without permission.

[Deadmeat1471]

'The LP in question was demonstrably not written 'for the public'.  This has been proven in this, and previous threads.  I do not need to retread this further.'

I don't get how this is the case, it was put on a public forum that I myself read. If it wasnt a public forum, I would not have been able to read it.
This is the opposite of proven, it is infact disproven.

But I take what you said, and I agree on many points.

[Sirus]

I've stated several times that the courtesy of asking is right.

*coughcough*

I don't see why they even need to get permission

They should be greatful.

Asking permission is like saying "Please oh please can I spend my time putting your work into a format so even more people can read it".

This thread is hilarious. Hey Deadmeat1471, you mind if I use your words as arguments for stronger copyright law? I'll give you full credit of course, and won't charge people a single penny.

[Capntastic]

A privately owned forum with a paywall to post, and alternates between being viewable by members only and publically viewable is not a 'public' forum.  It may be publically viewable, but that does not make it public property.  Further, the people involved in the LP were a group of members doing a communal LP.  They were not creating the LP 'for the public'.  It is not a public work, in the public domain, or any of that.