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[MechPlasma]

I doubt anyone here will actually be able to answer this, but I thought it'd be better to try ask anyway.

I'm in my last year of doing a bachelor's degree in IT (in Ireland, specifically), and I want to go into videogame programming. Ideally in a smaller but successful company, rather than a big triple-A one.

The question is: would it be a good idea to get a PhD in artificial intelligence? Or would it be too useless for the kind of job I'm interested in?

[Doomshifter]

I'm not in the industry, but I don't think that getting a PhD in Artificial Intelligence would really be all that useful for video games. As far as I can tell, a PhD in Artificial Intelligence would be more the science of getting smarter, more 'human' intelligences, while a video game's AI is all about whether it can path right and interact properly.

I think you'd be well and truly overqualified.

[GlyphGryph]

So, you're a bachelor then? 4 year degree? At least 3, I assume.

How many games have you made? 4 or 5, by now, I assume?

If they aren't that great, you should probably do a bit more on that front - generally, a strong portfolio and actual experience programming are the things that will net you a job, not a doctorate. And if you're interested in a small company, you might want to try a startup of some sort first. Don't know what the startup market looks like in Ireland, mind you, but if you can find one or two good people that's enough to build a strong team, really. Honestly, you don't even need that - go into business for yourself!

But a PhD in artificial intelligence? I'm not sure how much that would help.

It would certainly give you some nice fallback options in academia though, I think.

[Thief^]

A portfolio is worth more than your degree. I got my job with a AAA studio before my degree results were back, on the strength of how well I did on the programming test and the quality of my portfolio of random crap I'd done.

We do have some PHDs here, and they're very high-ranking in the company, but it's by no means required or even looked for when hiring.

[TolyK]

I had a very similar question, except that I'm a self-taught high schooler.

[GlyphGryph]

I work with someone who never went to college, and he's a great programmer. It certainly takes more ambition and drive than someone with a college degree, but a good portfolio and a sharp mind can easily overcome that sort of thing (and a few connections as well, especially)

Mind you, I'm not in the video game industry, but I understand it's not that much different in that respect.

[Telgin]

I'm not in the industry, but I don't think that getting a PhD in Artificial Intelligence would really be all that useful for video games. As far as I can tell, a PhD in Artificial Intelligence would be more the science of getting smarter, more 'human' intelligences, while a video game's AI is all about whether it can path right and interact properly.

I think you'd be well and truly overqualified.

This x 100.

Getting a Ph.D is probably going to be counterproductive to working in the game industry in general, unless you're getting it in some highly relevant field and working for a huge AAA game firm that needs cutting edge techniques developed.  Ph.Ds are usually acquired because you want to teach the subject at a university, or because you want to work in a research lab somewhere developing new concepts.

What you want, if you're aiming to work in the gaming industry is a very good math background, and solid programming skills, depending on precisely what you want to do in the field.  I assume you want to get into video game AI, since that's what you mention, and for that you'll want a solid foundation in the AI concepts taught in undergraduate computer science courses, but mostly for the graph searching.  Algorithms and software engineering are good things to know well as well.

A good math background and programming skills can make up for a lot.  As can a good portfolio, but if I had to guess many places will probably toss your resume without a bachelors in CS, unless you've got a fantastic portfolio.  It happens, but it's rare.

Oh, and I hope you've got a ton of patience and motivation.  Apparently it isn't uncommon for entry level developers (or heck, probably even managers) to pull 70-80 hour weeks during crunch time in the gaming industry.  Never worked in it myself, but thought I'd pass along that little tidbit of hearsay.

[Muz]

Richard Bartle (the MUD guy) has a PhD in Artificial Intelligence. And... I don't think he actually makes games anymore.

There's nothing saying that you can't actually do it, but PhDs are hard work, and unless you pick a research topic specifically about games, it's overkill. AI research is more on getting AI past the limitations of nature, not as useful in an environment where you get to set and make the laws of physics. Just a good degree will do.

One thing I've learned about games is that they're similar to movies. Unless you're Tarn Adams, making an actual simulation of the real world then turning it into a game is nearly impossible (and even Toady pulls a few tricks). You normally just want to create sort of a world that pretends to be real. Otherwise, you write a simulation, which is
- not fun, more like work
- really unbalanced, as there's little flaws that get exploited like hell
- too much effort to keep updated

All you want to achieve is believability.

Though on the programming side, I believe a degree helps. I've been programming solo for a while, and a degree just makes sure that you get it right. You tend to get all lazy, cut corners, get into some bad habits. University turns a hobbyist programmer into a professional.

[GlyphGryph]

Admittedly, working with other good programmers does the same thing just as well, if not better, in my experience.

[Thief^]

Oh, and I hope you've got a ton of patience and motivation.  Apparently it isn't uncommon for entry level developers (or heck, probably even managers) to pull 70-80 hour weeks during crunch time in the gaming industry.  Never worked in it myself, but thought I'd pass along that little tidbit of hearsay.

The book "Game Coding Complete" by Mike McShaffry (EDIT: great book) references a "100 club" where he'd worked before for developers who'd worked an over 100-hour week, aka 14 hours 20 minutes every day except Sunday, when you get 20 mins off...
That's a 7-day week of working, eating, and sleeping, and maybe driving, but maybe sleeping in the studio instead and not going anywhere else...
It's not actually THAT farfetched.

Working overtime when required is written into the contract.

EDIT: Also studios frequently go under, especially at the moment, so your job is by no means secure. It's a horrible industry.

[Telgin]

Though on the programming side, I believe a degree helps. I've been programming solo for a while, and a degree just makes sure that you get it right. You tend to get all lazy, cut corners, get into some bad habits. University turns a hobbyist programmer into a professional.

I've heard others say this too, and I believe it.

I was self taught until I got into the computer science program at this university.  I thought I knew how to program, and I was wrong.  I learned a lot in the first year or so, but that motivated me to learn a lot more on my own.  By the time I'd made it to the end of my undergraduate career, I wasn't learning much about programming in college so much as software engineering and related things.  That's the real benefit of a degree I think: it teaches more than just putting code together.

In my experience at least, being self taught and then formally trained is a good combination.  The self teaching means you've got passion and motivation, the schooling gives it shape and puts it in perspective.

Admittedly, working with other good programmers does the same thing just as well, if not better, in my experience.

This is very important too.  My manager is a great programmer, but he dropped out of college.  He's extremely motivated and passionate about the subject though, and spends twice the hours I do learning new techniques and technologies.  That makes up for the degree easily in his case.  Working with him has taught me a lot of things that I'd probably have never bothered to learn on my own, or not as soon, anyway.

And I'll also say that I learned more practical things working in the real world in a year than I did in four years at college.  Not to discredit what I did learn there, of course, but it's all just part of the puzzle.  There is no substitute for motivation.  There is no substitute for knowledge.  There is no substitute for experience.

[alway]

A PhD in AI won't help you. Game AI and AI in academia differ greatly. Games use mostly really simple stuff like finite state machines, heuristics, and such. CS AI courses are about modern AI programming; Bayes Rule, Hidden Markov Models, and other probabilistic methods. Though in the future, such AI probably will be used in games, at the present, games do not use such methods because they require more CPU time than the more simplistic approaches, among other reasons. Feel free to go for a PhD in AI for its own sake ('cause AI are really damn cool), but don't be under the impression it will help you get a job in the industry. The most complex AI used these days in games are relatively simple Hidden Markov Model based gesture recognition systems.

[TolyK]

Alway, you're making me lose several more hours looking at everything you posted.