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Author Topic: Gender Stereotypes & Homosexuality  (Read 6218 times)

LoneTophat

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Re: Gender Stereotypes & Homosexuality
« Reply #60 on: January 28, 2012, 01:17:06 pm »

Bollocks, it's totally a choice, at least on some level.  It took me just over six months to become attracted to guys.

DNA proves you wrong. You always had latent homosexual thoughts in your subconscious.
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lordcooper

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Re: Gender Stereotypes & Homosexuality
« Reply #61 on: January 28, 2012, 01:19:04 pm »

Bollocks, it's totally a choice, at least on some level.  It took me just over six months to become attracted to guys.

DNA proves you wrong. You always had latent homosexual thoughts in your subconscious.

Provide a reliable source or two?
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LoneTophat

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Re: Gender Stereotypes & Homosexuality
« Reply #62 on: January 28, 2012, 01:25:39 pm »

Bollocks, it's totally a choice, at least on some level.  It took me just over six months to become attracted to guys.

DNA proves you wrong. You always had latent homosexual thoughts in your subconscious.

Provide a reliable source or two?
Let's look at this logically. Studies have shown that homosexuality is caused by several different hormonal, biological, and genetic factors.
Let's look at the other side of things. Choice. Why in HELL would you CHOOSE to be homosexual?
Let me clarify. My friends have been TORMENTED and PERSECUTED endlessly, cast out of their OWN families, and refused entry to several commercial establishments.
The logic behind the choice factor is COMPLETELY flawed. Love is NEVER a choice. If you believe it is, then it was never love in the first place.
Sexuality is INTENSELY internal. Our bodies strive for our sexual needs, as do most other animals. It's biological. Look at the key word there. LOGIC :D
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Gender Stereotypes & Homosexuality
« Reply #63 on: January 28, 2012, 01:27:42 pm »

Bollocks, it's totally a choice, at least on some level.  It took me just over six months to become attracted to guys.

DNA proves you wrong. You always had latent homosexual thoughts in your subconscious.

Provide a reliable source or two?
Let's look at this logically. Studies have shown that homosexuality is caused by several different hormonal, biological, and genetic factors.
Let's look at the other side of things. Choice. Why in HELL would you CHOOSE to be homosexual?
Let me clarify. My friends have been TORMENTED and PERSECUTED endlessly, cast out of their OWN families, and refused entry to several commercial establishments.
The logic behind the choice factor is COMPLETELY flawed. Love is NEVER a choice. If you believe it is, then it was never love in the first place.
Sexuality is INTENSELY internal. Our bodies strive for our sexual needs, as do most other animals. It's biological. Look at the key word there. LOGIC :D
Unless you're pansexual

lordcooper

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Re: Gender Stereotypes & Homosexuality
« Reply #64 on: January 28, 2012, 01:28:02 pm »

Ah, so no source then.
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G-Flex

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Re: Gender Stereotypes & Homosexuality
« Reply #65 on: January 28, 2012, 01:39:25 pm »

Bollocks, it's totally a choice, at least on some level.  It took me just over six months to become attracted to guys.

DNA proves you wrong. You always had latent homosexual thoughts in your subconscious.

Provide a reliable source or two?
Let's look at this logically. Studies have shown that homosexuality is caused by several different hormonal, biological, and genetic factors.
Let's look at the other side of things. Choice. Why in HELL would you CHOOSE to be homosexual?
Let me clarify. My friends have been TORMENTED and PERSECUTED endlessly, cast out of their OWN families, and refused entry to several commercial establishments.
The logic behind the choice factor is COMPLETELY flawed. Love is NEVER a choice. If you believe it is, then it was never love in the first place.
Sexuality is INTENSELY internal. Our bodies strive for our sexual needs, as do most other animals. It's biological. Look at the key word there. LOGIC :D

None of that means that it's strictly genetic, or that sexuality is not at all fluid. It's a tad ridiculous to assume that, since it isn't strictly a choice, it must be something that can be reduced to genetics and never changes or develops whatsoever (note that these two things are not the same).

Now, if you're going to tell people that they're wrong about their own sexuality, you sure as hell better back it up with something. There's no credible evidence that sexual orientation is somehow fixed from birth, and the experiences of a lot of people provide evidence to the contrary.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2012, 01:41:30 pm by G-Flex »
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DJ

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Re: Gender Stereotypes & Homosexuality
« Reply #66 on: January 28, 2012, 02:06:26 pm »

Nobody would ever choose to have PTSD, therefore it must be genetic.
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kaenneth

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Re: Gender Stereotypes & Homosexuality
« Reply #67 on: January 28, 2012, 03:26:42 pm »

Homosexuality is a choice only as much as you can control your outward actions.

You can't choose who you like, love, or lust for; but you can choose (generally...) who you spend time with, help, and have sex with.

I solidly believe that being gay is basically determined by biology, by a combination of genetics, and hormones in the womb affecting the development of the brain in a way that contradicts the body. It may be possibile for sometime like hormone treatments/exposure to affect the brain up until puberty as well.

Someone might act opposite of what their brains biology tells them, but that's because they are human. To me, the defining characteristic of humanity is the ability to override instinct (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gom_jabbar).

However, while do I believe that not being able to control your sexual impulses is a mental weakness; in the case of homosexuality it shouldn't matter, since there is nothing wrong with homosexuality in the first place.
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Truean

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Re: Gender Stereotypes & Homosexuality
« Reply #68 on: January 28, 2012, 04:43:13 pm »

Nobody would ever choose to have PTSD, therefore it must be genetic.

Evidence is a brick wall: made up of many bricks facts.

The fact that someone bought a gun, in and of itself doesn't mean he shot his wife and her beau. It's just one brick and that does not make a wall. Put with other bricks, that he increased her life insurance, that he hid a man's shirt that was too small for him, that he canceled their hotel reservations for their anniversary next august, that he bought a one way plane ticket out of the country, that he recently rented a car near the workplace of the man who his wife was with, that he has recently "misplaced" his gun and any ammunition, and you've arguably got a wall.

What you've pointed out is merely a brick. Of course it isn't a wall. That doesn't mean it isn't relevant building material to the brick wall of the ultimate conclusion.

But, who cares? I don't give a shit either way. Nothing wrong with either result of choice or nature. I do think it's nature, because I attempted to chose to be a straight male. I'm completely uninterested in naked females and there isn't a damn thing to change that. I've had them flirt with and hit on me and I feel positively nothing. I like men. I'm through lying to myself about it, because I wasted years doing this.
_________________________________________

It never ceases to amaze me how I keep seeing people who have a problem with "feminine gays." I guess I might be considered one of those, what, with being trans and all. Some feminine gays can overdo it, but frankly I find they're just making up for lost time they spent repressed. It's a bit of a treat to finally be able to be yourself and do all those things you weren't allowed to do. I really enjoyed wearing dresses anyway I could and went a tad overboard at first, because I had wanted to for years.... Those years spent being ashamed of wanting simple things like wearing a certain type of clothes, namely pretty ones, wear on you. It sucks. Cut the overly flamboyant gays some slack. They eventually mellow out and get used to it.

I still greatly enjoy being able to wear cute clothes, but it's become a lovely routine, rather than a special treat I've been longing for and can't wait to have. The weirdness was because girls just ... are used to it. They wear skirts or cute jeans or blouses or shirts or a dress or whatever every day. For the longest time, I only got to wear those things at certain times I would look forward to all week or all month or longer. It was super fucking special to be able to wear a skirt. For girls, that's called Tuesday and every other day. They can do it whenever and they do.

Unfortunately, the world is full of jerks who don't like transsexuals, or anyone who isn't a predefined barbie or ken doll. So, I have to live a lie to the outside world. On weekends, I live just like any other woman in my own home, or sometimes in the home of a trusted friend.

I haven't received a single "special privilege." I have been beaten the living shit out of and left at a hospital door so badly bruised that I was admitted as "John Doe." Actually that was when I was in high school and denying even to myself that I was gay. I was hiding it like crazy and no one knew. They just called me gay as an insult.... You can be fired from your job, refused housing rentals or sales, and a host of other shit just for being gay in the overwhelming majority of the US. I have no idea what the fuck people are talking about when they say there are "privileges to being gay." I probably never will.

I don't know if I'm going to contribute to this thread, as this isn't the best time for me, but clearly it's relevant to me. I've lived a lot of the stuff people are talking about.
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G-Flex

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Re: Gender Stereotypes & Homosexuality
« Reply #69 on: January 28, 2012, 04:47:38 pm »

But, who cares? I don't give a shit either way. Nothing wrong with either result of choice or nature. I do think it's nature, because I attempted to chose to be a straight male. I'm completely uninterested in naked females and there isn't a damn thing to change that. I've had them flirt with and hit on me and I feel positively nothing. I like men. I'm through lying to myself about it, because I wasted years doing this.

None of those things are incompatible with it being at least partly environmental in origin, though, that's the thing. Nobody's saying that it's a choice, but I personally think it's rather silly to boil it, or any other complex human issue, down to either "nature" or "nurture". That debate should be long over.

DJ is simply stating that it's wrong to assume that it must be genetic simply because it isn't a choice. This is a valid point to make.
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Re: Gender Stereotypes & Homosexuality
« Reply #70 on: January 28, 2012, 05:52:00 pm »

I gave DrPoo 2 weeks.  The mess has made this thread a bit of a report magnet, and I think new arrivals reading through that part will probably lead to trouble sustaining conversations down below, so I'm going to lock it.  Feel free to continue any of the serious parts in an unbroken thread.
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