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[numerobis]

I have to agree that I enjoy the challenge of making sure the main entrances aren't trapped -- I was never comfortable with the concept that anyone can just walk right over a trap, unless magically they're an "enemy".  However, I would prefer if we could tell the merchants to please avoid a certain way out, because it is full of traps (or of goblin invaders, for that matter).

[Sean Mirrsen]

How about an engineering project a la "Full wall of floodgates surrounding a shallow pit full of traps with a single bridge across it, activated at the same time through the same lever"?

[kuro_suna]

I'll second that I'm all for making traps more realistic but not until a lot of problems get fixed.
I don't wasn't to constantly lose forts becouse nobody felt like pulling a lever or my military didn't want their nap interrupted.

[Chariot]

for me merchants arent a problem. its easy to make sure they dont have a path with traps on it. the problem is with the diplomats, who take off into your fort to wherever your meeting guy is, regardless of where he is, and will thus run into traps almost anywhere

[veryinky]

Keeping traps as universally deadly to all would be solved by linking them to levers to activate and deactivate them. Also having friendly units wait while guards AUTOMATICALLY pull levers to deactivate/activate the traps so they can be crossed safely, would solve the problem. Not like guard dwarves actually do anything useful right now.

Beyond that, a new traffic designation for allied friendly units (not dwarves) which would include a "forbidden" area, not restricted, FORBIDDEN. So they don't wander unnecessarily into a trap field. Or through the dining areas. Think of it as "No unauthorized personnel beyond this point". A forbidden traffic designation for dwarves would be nice too. It'd be especially nice if traps automatically created a forbidden designation on their square whenever they were active.

A waiting room designation would be nice too. Diplomats and trade reps would go there to wait out instead of following the count/mayor around while they eat or drink or watching them sleep. They'd wait in the waiting room designated space until the count/mayor was waiting in their office for the meeting.

With this, count me in for dangerous traps.

[isitanos]

quote:Originally posted by veryinky:
<STRONG>Keeping traps as universally deadly to all would be solved by linking them to levers to activate and deactivate them. Also having friendly units wait while guards AUTOMATICALLY pull levers to deactivate/activate the traps so they can be crossed safely, would solve the problem. Not like guard dwarves actually do anything useful right now.</STRONG>

Yes.

quote:<STRONG>
Beyond that, a new traffic designation for allied friendly units (not dwarves) which would include a "forbidden" area, not restricted, FORBIDDEN. So they don't wander unnecessarily into a trap field. Or through the dining areas. Think of it as "No unauthorized personnel beyond this point". A forbidden traffic designation for dwarves would be nice too. It'd be especially nice if traps automatically created a forbidden designation on their square whenever they were active.</STRONG>

Yes.

quote:<STRONG>
A waiting room designation would be nice too. Diplomats and trade reps would go there to wait out instead of following the count/mayor around while they eat or drink or watching them sleep. They'd wait in the waiting room designated space until the count/mayor was waiting in their office for the meeting.

With this, count me in for dangerous traps.</STRONG>

And Yes.

quote:Originally posted by Sean Mirrsen:
<STRONG>Maybe just use this as a reason to rework the traps altogether? Remove the "traps" as they are now, leave in pressure plates, levers, retractable/powered floor weapons (not only spears/spikes), retractable/powered wall weapons, cages, etc. A cage would work like a hatch - if you raise a cage when a creature (creatures) is on the tile, you trap the creatures in the cage. Weapons work like they should. Stonefall traps will require more micromanagement - a hatch with stones/objects on top of it, that opens and drops the load on the passersby below.

That way you can control, through the p.plate's settings, what creatures or factors trigger your traps.</STRONG>

And yes as well, except that if traps can be devices of arbitrary complexity, it becomes the player's job to designate which squares are considered as "trap" squares.

[Sean Mirrsen]

If traps become "undefined", the player has more control as to how the traps operate. Only the pressureplates will have to have a switch added, so that a lever can force them to be non-pressable (quite like a safety switch). It will also make a grand total of ONE device type that needs to track stuff, instead of all the different traps. All the connected mechanisms will instead be just "blind followers", and flow computers will be able to set sequences of traps into motion, making for some epic adventure mode events. Again, I see nothing but benefits (for gameplay) in this system, even realism will be improved (no more stonefall "traps" out in the open). Btw, I wonder, do falling objects currently impact creatures? Somebody make a bridgeapult that throws stones and have it bombard your civilian area.

[Kagus]

Aren't bridgeapults currently useless?  I thought that their tossing power was practically removed with the z-level version.

Instead of a good *SHWIIING!* it's now more of a "pffh".

[Sean Mirrsen]

I know they've been nerfed, but building a bridgeapult is rather easier than a chute above your residential area.

[Quintin Stone]

Another thing that would need to be addressed with a trap redesign would be the amount of time required to link a pressure plate to the various traps.  Right now I'd estimate a standard mechanic can built a dozen traps in the amount of time it'd take to link 1 lever to something.

[Crafty Barnardo]

quote:Originally posted by Sean Mirrsen:
<STRONG>Btw, I wonder, do falling objects currently impact creatures? </STRONG>

Yes, indeedy!
My dungeon master was nearly crushed to death because I blew a support to do a controlled cave-in on a cliff about 4 or 5 z-levels above.  Mind you, he wasn't actually under the ceiling that collapsed.  What happened, as far as I can tell, was that there was so much stone that some of it blew out sideways and fell down the side of the cliff to a ledge where he was gathering magnetite ore.

[Thallone]

quote:Originally posted by Baro:
<STRONG>was your peasant who was killed an arriving immigrant? that might explain it, as they arn't totally flagged as citizens until they reach your meeting point</STRONG>

Actually, no. I had no recent immigrant waves, and my meeting place is right inside the fort entrance. The death occurred about halfway into the fort, in a long narrow corridor that I was in the process of trapping to kingdom-come before disbanding everything in the old early fort section, as I had magma, magnetite and soil within a couple screens in the 'new' section. The intention was to turn the old section into an empty barracks/rally space and a buffer between the critters and the dwarves. I had just had a disastrous encounter with ambushers (lashers and macegobins) and as everyone was headed back in, this happened.

BTW: no saves near enough to the event to make it reproducible.

[Stromko]

(edit: didn't notice I'd responded to the first page when in fact there were two more pages after that which certainly already answered the questions that I answered, so this reply should be deleted.)

[ February 20, 2008: Message edited by: Stromko ]