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[jeffreyac]

Hi all,

  Been trying the last few embarks to get a handle on magma and how to use it effectively. Mostly I've been tampering with magma pistons - but my frustration with these always boils down to finding a clear vertical path cavern-free that I can use to construct the piston...  seems nearly impossible to get a clear path through 3 cavern layers to the magme, 150z levels or so below.

Anyway, I decided to take a chance on my last embark - part of my desire to harness magma comes from my desire to break my dependance on wood, so I tried a no-wood embark zone (taking with me a bunch of logs to see me through for beds, etc until traders show up...)

To my pleasant surprise, the embark has a magma pool, about 35 z levels down, and a little easier access than my normal go. I set out setting up a magma pistong - then realized that (because of how I tend to make the piston) I'd only be lifting the magma up to lvl -10 or so; still fairly deep in the fortress and only really lifting the magma up 20 levels or so.

So, with this in mind, I thought maybe this would be the embark I could look into pump stacks with. I built a test windmill, discovering that windmills on this embark produce the full 40 units of power, annd got ready to go. My questions:

1) I've got the windmill over a gear assembly, linked to a lever so I can turn on/off the (eventual) pump stack. Is this proper construction technique? (I seem to remember reading somewhere that I should actually have not linked the lever to the assembly directly under the windmill; something about them disassembling when they're not powering the gear...)

2) On the pump stacks...  I'm a little confused. I'm doing this because I don't have wood, and want magma forges/kilns/smelters. But a little research says I need to make 35 pumps for this - so, 35 enormous corkscrews, each needing to be magma safe, so iron or glass - for which, I'll need to use a kiln/smelter/forge....   so I guess I'm at a loss on how folks tend to build these 150 z-level stacks I keep reading about; if youre building the stack to get the magma, how do you forge all the parts to GET the magma, before you HAVE the magma?  (I do have obsidian, and was excited - thought I'd build it all out of obsidian, but unless I'm missing something I'll need more than just magma safe rock to get the project underway...)

3) A subjective question....   is this worth it???  It occurs to me that I could just create a forge facility down next to the magma, 30 levels below my main fortress - but this seems a little less aethesticly pleasing to me...  Is this typically what those who are wise in the ways of magma do, just build forges/smelters where the magma is, or do most bring it close to the surface (and the main fortress) to be worked?


Right now I'm considering doing both - a temp facility down in the depths to create the equipment for the pump stack, then get the stack going to power the larger facility above. Does this sound reasonable?

Also, since I have yet to successfully harness the power of magma, any suggestions or pointers would be helpful. (Just remember, I'm extremely wood limited!)

[NecroRebel]

1. That isn't the proper construction technique for the reason you cited. When a gear assembly is disengaged, it essentially ceases to exist temporarily, and additional mechanics cannot hang off of it. If the gear assembly directly beneath your windmill is disengaged, the windmill will instantly deconstruct itself due to lack of support.

2. Generally, to build the pump stack, you either make the pump components using charcoal/coke for fuel, or you build a temporary facility down by the magma to do it. I tend to make a magma glass furnace (assuming I have sand) that uses the same hole for power as the eventual stack will draw out of.

3. I usually say "yes" to this question, but that's because I like to have my metalworks near where my soldiers train, and my soldiers train near my surface entrance. Also, magma traps are fun and I need magma at my fort's level for those anyway.

[i2amroy]

1&2) NecroRebel pretty much hit the nail on the head.

3) Personally I never really mess around with pump stacks for something as simple as a forge. I mean going down 30 (or even 50+) levels isn't that big of a deal, its the same as if you built your forge 30 steps away horizontally. Combine that with having stockpiles that hold all of your baser materials (metal ores, bars, etc.) for forging down there and I really have never noticed a difference. If you really do want to put forges near the top however, you might consider checking out the Magma Piston method of transportation. Much faster to set up, and works just as well if your only purpose of the pump stack is to generate a small pool to use for forging/glassmaking/etc. (Of course if you want to use the magma to burn invaders or something like that then a pump stack is probably a better idea.)

[jeffreyac]

Yep, the pistons are what I've been trying to do mostly; they seem a lot more elegant in that they don't require hundreds of pumps worth of materials - I just thought since this was the first time I'd found a pool so shallow, it might be a time to try the stack. Also, on pistons a) I never seem to get the magma very high, by the time I cut a layer off the top for support, one for building a floor to drop to knock out all the mined floors below and free the piston, one at the bottom to free the piston, plus a space to catch the transferred ;ava - well, ok, most of that probably only made sense to me (and the way I understand to build pistons) but the end result (even if it worked) would be to elevate the lava up to about 8 or 10 levels below the surface. I've figured I'd put up with that (even though my main production floor is normaly a little higher, say 3 or 4 below the surface) because, hey, 8 or 10 levels is better than 150. Oh, and the b)...  I've never actually got the pistons to work successfuly. Got close on the last one - good drop, everything worked perfectly, except I didnt realize my bottom magma cistern (where the piston fell) was partially over the magma sea a level below. Half the piston disintegrated into the semi-molten rock, leaving a hole in my capture cistern - however, the principle worked as I watched the transferred magma cascade back down the shaft...  so we called that a successful test of the theories involved.

I guess my biggest problem with pistons is I seem to have a hard time finding an unbroken vertical path between the lava 150 z-levels deep and the surface, where caverns aren't in the way, to construct the piston. My next embark, I've decided I'm going to try it in stages; have 2 or 3 magma pistons, each rising to the next cavern layer, then move the magma over to get a clear path to the surface. May be more work (and I'll not be as efficient, losing more magma with each transfer) but I think it'll be easier for me to construct in the long run - it'll save me the time I spend endlessly searching for gaps in all 3 cavern layers that line up perfectly and are big enough for a good sized piston....

[FuzzyZergling]

Personally, I build my forges down where the magma is, rather than bring the magma to my forges.
Usually, that means building a tiny second fortress at level -120, so going down to -30 seems easy to me.

[kardwill]

A secondary industrial facility 30 or 50 z levels down will operate with few problems. I often setup a temporary operation down there.
Otherwise, I never bothered with automated pumps. For magma forges and moats, you only need to bring magma up once, so dwarfpower (pump operators, many of them) is efficient and easier to use. If you don't have enough dwarves, you can setup temporary magma reservoirs, so you can bring it up in several steps.
IF you need it for more extended uses (traps, obsidian farms, lava falls...), dwarfpower won't suffice, though.