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[vjek]

I've built my first successful goblinite generator in the form of a magma hallway.  Magma is pumped from a reservoir below the hall to shower down from above and get rid of all the messy organic bits carrying the tasty goblinite.

Works great, water wheel powered, I am pleased.  Pressurized magma really is as fun as everyone says it is.

The context of the problem:

At the moment, I use engraved fortifications to drain the hallway, but weapons are being swept into the reservoir instead of remaining above in the hallway for easy access.

The question:

Is there a floor, grate, hatch, wall, or similar construction that will allow the passage of fluid, but NOT allow weapons/armor to pass through?
Please and thank you in advance for any responses.

[Sphalerite]

Water or magma will push objects through fortifications, wall grates, wall bars, and statues.  However, a floor grate or floor bars will allow liquids to drain through it while stopping objects.  You need to redesign your drain system to use floor grates instead of fortifications.

[Vehudur]

Warning: building destroyers may smash your floor grates.

[vjek]

Back to the drawing board!

However, this is a small hurdle to overcome, and thank you for the answer.

[BigD145]

I usually pump fluids out from above. This lets me use floor hatches on the level above, which are immune to building destroyers that are below.

[acetech09]

I use a bridge/floorgrate system to drain the water from my drowning room without worrying about building destroyers:

Code: [Select]

ENTER                       EXIT
##################
bB++++++++++++++Bb
bB++++++++++++++Bb
bB++++++++++++++Bb
#####BBBBBBBB#####
#####bbbbbbbbD++++
#####GGGGGGGG#####

B=Raising bridge anchor point. b = Bridge floor when lowered.
G = Wall/Floor grate - linked to drainage. D = Door
# = Wall, + Floor,

You can elongate the chamber as long as you want, best to also use a set of doors on the inside-facing bridge to not accidentally atomsmash your dwarves.

Goblins walk in (baited w. some animals/furniture), doors close, pressurized water (in my system, magma in your case) flows in, drowns/burns them all, bridge lowers, goblinite gets strained, door opens and your dwarfs haul it all away.

[vjek]

acetech, that's a great system, but before I go to all the trouble of building it, I just want to be sure:

Wall grates act as the perfect strain?  In that they won't allow -any- object to pass through them, only fluids?

I only ask for this one point of clarification because Sphalerite specifically mentions wall grates WILL allow them to pass, while floor grates will not.  (for 31.25/current version here, I'm talking about)

[crekit]

Water or magma will push objects through fortifications, wall grates, wall bars, and statues.  However, a floor grate or floor bars will allow liquids to drain through it while stopping objects.  You need to redesign your drain system to use floor grates instead of fortifications.

CRAP Now I have to redesign my hallways! Although now that I think about it,
DUH! Using floor grates in the first place would have made the entire design so much simpler!

[Gizogin]

So, if flowing liquids push objects through fortifications but not floor grates, why not use both?  Use the magma to push the armor/weapons through some fortifications and onto some floor grates.  Then you can have your dwarves collect the goblinite from the grates with no less danger of them accidentally falling into the reservoir or wandering into the deadly hallway, and it's safe from building destroyers.

[Frogwarrior]

Gizogin: there's always the chance (or the certainty?) that items will be pushed onto the fortifications but not pushed off.

At any rate, I recommend the following setup for ease of use and buildingdestroyer-immuneness:

Make the floor of your chamber a retracting bridge.
Have a room of floor grates underneath, with magma drainage under that.
The floor grate room is accessible to haulers inside the fort, inaccessible to the outside.
Thus:

Code: [Select]

Top level:
OOOOOOOOOO
bB======Bb
bB======Bb
OOOOOOOOOO

Code: [Select]

Bottom level:
 OOOOOOOOO
 O######D
 O######D
 OOOOOOOOO
To use, close the drawbridges (B is impassible when raised) at the entrance. To drain, pull the lever on the retracting bridge. Mamga and magma-safe items will fall onto the grates below. Magma falls through the grates, items do not. Pull both levers to unseal and re-floor the room. Unforbid the items, and your haulers will come pick them up.

[vjek]

So, an update on this.

I went ahead and built a full scale implementation of a system that uses the following:

-pressurized overhead magma reservoir, drawn from a nearby volcano
-a convoluted path entrance hallway 256 squares long to draw in as many foes as possible during sieges.
-engraved fortifications on the hallway walls to drain the hallway quickly
-magma safe floor grates on the other side of the fortifications to prevent weapons from falling into the lower catchbasin/reservoir.

Functionally, it works great.  with 8 pumps drawing from the volcano, it actually moves so much magma, the volcano volume drops several Z-levels while its in pumping mode.  Once pressurized, it's a single lever to unleash liquid fun on the goblinite haulers.

Unfortunately, there is one major problem.  Evidently, with enough fluid speed/pressure/force, GOBLINS can be pushed through fortifications, unharmed, by the wave of magma falling from the ceiling.  This, as you can imagine, led to some very fun times for my bearded mushroom-eaters.

Thusly, I will have to abandon this design and move to a pure wall grate / floor grate design.  Goodbye "Clinchgate" your existence was not in vain.   ( If anyone wants a copy of the fort, by all means, PM me and I'll provide a link )

[Frogwarrior]

Unfortunately, there is one major problem.  Evidently, with enough fluid speed/pressure/force, GOBLINS can be pushed through fortifications, unharmed, by the wave of magma falling from the ceiling.  This, as you can imagine, led to some very fun times for my bearded mushroom-eaters.

Oh snap, really?? Normally my magma landmines will push goblins and trolls long distances, but they still get melted enough to bleed to death pret-ty quickly. But if the magma pushes them two squares onto a floor grate, and incoming magma simply drains under them....
Wow, yeah, harsh.

[vjek]

Oh snap, really?? Normally my magma landmines will push goblins and trolls long distances, but they still get melted enough to bleed to death pret-ty quickly. But if the magma pushes them two squares onto a floor grate, and incoming magma simply drains under them....
Wow, yeah, harsh.

Yeah, that's exactly what happened and it was quite the surprise, let me tell you.   Wouldn't have been so bad if they were burned or harmed at all, but nope, unharmed and ready to rock-n-roll.   And after so many years (in-game) of getting things all setup for the first seige... /sniff!  Ah well, I have come up with a different and hopefully better design, and am building it now.   We shall see!

[vjek]

So, here's my notes from making a working magma hallway trap system that preserves all weapons & armor, is entirely immune to building destroyers, but kills -everything- inside and is FAST.  (cycle time from first creature trigger to magma free hallway floors is 17-20 seconds, measured by the stopwatch)

It is also entirely automated, including reset.  It has exactly one ... annoyance, which I'm not sure there is a fix for, but more on that after the spoiler link!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

Requirements: Volcano.  Infinite water source(s).  Four Z-Levels, and as much space as you'd care to use.  My proof of concept example all fits inside a 50x25 square per level.
Important: Channel out below bridges before placing them.

Z+1 (above hall)
---
Pressurized magma source: (volcano on the left)
MPPS
MPPSS
MPPSSS
MPPBBB
MPPBBB
MPPBBB
MPPSSS
MPPSS
MPPS

M - magma (below)
P - iron pump
S - smoothed floor
B - retractable bridge (channeled out below the bridge)
This can be setup in any direction, the important part is nine pumps, and that the magma source be as near to the volcano as possible, ideally you'll be drawing from the squares adjacent to the vertical obsidian tube wall that contains the volcano.

Hallway layout (Z+0)
     ...
SSSBBFFFFFFFFFF%FFFFFFFFFFBB~traps~bait/fortress
SSSBBFFFFFFFFFFPFFFFFFFFFCBB~traps~bait/fortress
SSSBBFFFFFFFFFF%FFFFFFFFFFBB~traps~bait/fortress
     ^^^
     magma dumped here controlled by bridge (acting as a hatch) above, in the Z+1 level.

S - stairs down to the trap hall
B - raise-able drawbridges as walls, 2x3 works fine.
F - retractable bridges as floors, 10x3 max size, need at least two (20x3 total) on either side of the creature pressure plate to ensure capture of titans/fast movers/many goblins
C - channel above to PP2, when the room is completely full, magma will be pushed up this channel onto the pressure plate.  Floor on that tile, in the hallway, is a bridge as normal.  It's at the end of the hallway to ensure maximum fillage detection.

Z-1 (below hall)
---
Floor grates to catch goblinite as it rains down from above, free of its organic restraints.   Be free, goblinite!
PP7 in middle, adjacent to the center line below the creature pressure plate on Z+0.

Z-2 (below halls)
---
reservoir/catchbasin/drain to map-edge


dwarven logic-path layout

RS1  RS2  RS3  RS4
FG1  FG3  FG5  %%%FG7
PP3  PP4  PP5  TIL
FG2  FG4  FG6  PP6
EDG  EDG  EDG  EDG

RS - river source (infinite water source of some kind)
FG - floodgate
PP - pressure plate
EDG - map edge carved fortification (for drainage)

RS1 logic flow controls wall-bridges in the hallway, to trap the goblins
RS2 logic flow controls magma source above the hallway, to burn the goblins
RS3 logic flow controls hallway floors and collect the organic-free goblinite
RS4 logic flow controls drainage & trap reset

PP1, creature only, 1000 weight min, any max, tied to FG1 & FG3
PP2, magma only, (6 min, 7 max), tied to FG4 & FG5
PP7, magma only, (2 min, 7 max), triggers slow reset, near grates, tied to FG7
PP3, water only, (4 min, 7 max), opens wall-bridges to block hallway
PP4, water only, (4 min, 7 max), opens magma source hatch on Z+1
PP5, water only, (4 min, 7 max), opens floor to drain
PP6, water only, (2 min, 7 max), resets trap (may need to be 3min/7max)

Logic flow:
PP1 triggers FG1&FG3, closing the wallbridges(FG1) and starting magma flow (FG3)
hallway fills with magma, under pressure.
eventually, hallway is full
magma full triggers PP2, which is tied to FG4&FG5, turning off the magma flow and removing the floor
magma drains below, triggering PP7
PP7 raises FG7
water flows (slowly) to PP6
PP6 raises FG2 & FG6 to drop the walls and return the floor to normal.

mechanism ties (in order)
---
lever1 -> bridge-walls in hallway (x2)
lever2 -> magma-source-hatch-bridge (x1)
lever3 -> floor-bridges in hallway (x4 at least)
PP7 (magma drained indicator) -> FG7
PP6 (logic) -> FG2, FG6
PP4 (logic) -> magma-source-hatch-bridge (x1)
PP5 (logic) -> floor-bridges in hallway (x4 at least)
PP3 (logic) -> bridge-walls in hallway (x2)
PP2 (magma full indicator) -> FG4, FG5
PP1 (creature) -> FG1, FG3

The levers are there for dealing with titans and whatever else you'd care to manually trap and melt.  They're also handy for testing as you build.  Basically you just flip lever1 then lever2 then lever3 to empty then reverse to reset.


While I did floor-bridge + floor-bridge + creature-pressure-plate + floor-bridge + floor-bridge, what is actually better is floor-bridge + creature-pressure-plate + floor-bridge +  floor-bridge + floor-bridge (creatures entering from the left) as this allows for three bridges worth of travel time before the hallway is sealed.  With only two bridges worth (20 tiles) it's a little tight on the timing with single-file trolls, for example.  They often get right to the edge before the bridge walls go up.  A small detail, but worth mentioning.  My next version will be 20 tiles prior to and 30 tiles after the creature trigger, to ensure maximum efficiency.

The only slightly annoying thing about the system is that there is a single 1/7 magma often leftover on the creature-driven pressure plate that blocks pathing for the evil monsters.  So, they COULD come in again, but they stand around doing nothing waiting for one single tiny 1/7 magma tile to evaporate.  Pumping from above does no good as 1/7 magma cannot be pumped.  If anyone knows how to speed up magma evaporation, please let me know.