Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[MaskedMiner]

If you really want that sword, and you do, here is what you must do.
Get yourself a squad of ten steel-clad, legendary dwarves. Punch a hole in the lowest level of the cavern and search for a structure made of slade. The walls are all smooth, so you will recognize it immediately. Move your dwarves slowly in; the place is full of undead monsters. Cleanse the place, level by level, until you are certain there are no more undead there. Then, find your upright weapon. On that level, there will be several "glowing floors." Build a constructed floor over every single one of these. Save, make a copy, and then deconstruct the upright weapon. You now have the best weapon you can possibly find; give it to someone you like.

Hey, I said the floor over glowing tile thing already D:

[Poindexterity]

Time to ruin the fun of all the people who want to see your fort die.

Those swords are generally entrances to hell, if you take it it open's up an entrance to hell and an extremely large amount of demons come out. It ruins your FPS and they are hard to kill, SO IGNORE it.

DO NOT TRUST THE OTHER PEOPLE WHO POST AFTER ME!

sometimes i wish we had a rep system on here.
you could have told dude to watch out without spoiling shit for him.

for example: the risks for grabbing that sword are great, but so is the amount of potential !FUN! to be had.

not a cool move dude.

[Nerserus]

As said before though; losing a fortress is also not cool.

I mean yeah I get the whole 'fun' running joke thing, but a newbie shouldn't have to get owned just for the sake of a spoiler. I think he'd be annoyed alot more if he didn't know, picked up the sword, and got raped. There's no real way you can tell him about the armies of demons without spoiling it.

Besides, he asked, he got answered. If he was told OMGSECRET or if we flat out lied to him and said picking up the sword was a good thing, we'd be douchebags.

Also, I'm glad there's no Rep System here. Jesus. We'd have people explaining things who'd have -9001 rep apparently.

[Sutremaine]

I really see no reason to preserve spoilers other than to screw with noobs.

...anyone who hasn't read this yet should.

I'm getting mixed messages here.

[Urist_McArathos]

The unspoken agreement when it comes to HFS is to be vague, but warn the player that bad things may happen.  I personally also include the recommendation to back up their save FIRST, just in case.  All the previous arguments about losing a fort, people already know, etc. are a crock.

If a player is told "it might be dangerous, back up your save just in case" (which is usually what happens, or close enough), I see no reason AT ALL to spoil the surprise.  What happened in the second post was purely a dick move, and I strongly, STRONGLY disagree with it.

No, we don't tell someone who asks about farming to farm dimple cups for food.  If you'll check "You Have Found...", you'll see that NOBODY there claimed that under the sword was a bunch of prancing gnomes, fluffy wamblers, and endless supplies of booze and naked chicks.  The OP asked about the sword, and he was told there was danger around it, and how to claim it.  Nothing more.  THAT is how it's done.  Deliberately trolling a newbie into killing their fortress is one thing; letting their own curiosity do them in is another.

Personally, I don't care how attached you are to your fortress; the motto of the game is "Losing is Fun!" for a reason.  If you can't have a sense of humor about it happening to a fortress, this is probably the wrong game for you. 

[Poindexterity]

As said before though; losing a fortress is also not cool.

spoken like a man who missed the point of my post and the game.

[Nerserus]

The unspoken agreement when it comes to HFS is to be vague, but warn the player that bad things may happen.  I personally also include the recommendation to back up their save FIRST, just in case.  All the previous arguments about losing a fort, people already know, etc. are a crock.

If a player is told "it might be dangerous, back up your save just in case" (which is usually what happens, or close enough), I see no reason AT ALL to spoil the surprise.  What happened in the second post was purely a dick move, and I strongly, STRONGLY disagree with it.

No, we don't tell someone who asks about farming to farm dimple cups for food.  If you'll check "You Have Found...", you'll see that NOBODY there claimed that under the sword was a bunch of prancing gnomes, fluffy wamblers, and endless supplies of booze and naked chicks.  The OP asked about the sword, and he was told there was danger around it, and how to claim it.  Nothing more.  THAT is how it's done.  Deliberately trolling a newbie into killing their fortress is one thing; letting their own curiosity do them in is another.

Personally, I don't care how attached you are to your fortress; the motto of the game is "Losing is Fun!" for a reason.  If you can't have a sense of humor about it happening to a fortress, this is probably the wrong game for you.

Woah woah woah. You can't just say "IF YOU DON'T LIKE LOSING GTFO"; if someone asks a question, they should expect an answer. If they want to find things out for themselves they don't have to ask.

Stop being such nazis about a mere quote put in the game to make people feel better about the learning curve. What a load of self serving bastards.

Anyway, to try and keep this post away from being a simple flame...Spoilers, I agree should be respected. To a certain extent.
The whole idea of the game is that the Dwarves dig too deep and etc etc basically it's kinda based around Lord of the Rings and the Balrog of Moria.

But the key thing is, it's a game. Games are meant to be fun, the game is much more complex than just getting pwned left and right, it's about building a cool fortress and making dwarfbucks too. Now, this guy could of spent days on this fort. Is the spoiler really worth it? No, no it's not, it's not like you're going to be "surprised" each time, it's only the first time. If your only enjoyment is the first time you get owned by Demons.

This is not the right game for you.

[Urist_McArathos]

Hence my recommendation to advise them to back up their save first.  The HFS is hidden, and fun, for a reason.  A backup allows the player to both experience the Fun, without really losing their fort.  I have no issue with them deciding they'd rather not lose it, though considering the myriad of ways to have your fortress end in death and ruin, I still feel that if you cannot laugh at that you're playing the wrong game.  It will happen, it will happen regardless of how well you plan at times, and sometimes it will seem downright unfair.  I'm not saying "if you don't like losing GTFO", I'm saying if you can't handle losing this game will not be enjoyable.  Losing happens, often and unpredictably.  It's part of Dwarf Fortess.  The line isn't some throwaway to help with the learning curve, it's the only viewpoint that allows constant tantrum spirals, ridiculous AI decision making (like sock chasing or taking a break when a FB is rushing towards that wall the mason was supposed to build), and more bearable.

I don't have an issue with warning someone that the content they've found can be dangerous.  I don't have an issue with advising them to protect their investment in time and energy.  I do have a major issue with deciding to ruin a potentially fun and exciting end-game element when there was no reason to.  Nobody trolled this person into thinking there was candy and puppies under the sword; the spoiling was uncalled for. 

[Nerserus]

Personally I dislike losing but still enjoy the game, can't handle losing is also a bit of a strong word. You're never really going to set out to lose, the main objective is not to lose. Now sure losing and doing things a bit better each time is fun, but I whole-heartedly disagree with unfair losses being fun.

If he has a backup save? Sure, but he might not of saved for a while...I've killed half the world on Adventure Mode, got the deadly bite of death from a bogeyman and I was done for, regardless of being legendary in most of my stats. It was unfair how I died, I forgot to save, it wasn't as fun as I was promised. Now yeah that's my fault for not saving. But why should this guy have to go back or even lose his entire fort if he hasn't saved, just for the sake of a spoiler?

He can save yeah, prepare for it, but not if he didn't know. As for explaining the sheer magnitude of what's underneath...Isn't...That kinda ruining the spoiler? What's your definition of a spoiler's purity?

Also, I feel it's valid to bring up the 2nd poster only spoiled it on the off chance someone did troll him into taking it. It's not like he set out to be an ass on purpose.

[Urist_McArathos]

Personally I dislike losing but still enjoy the game, can't handle losing is also a bit of a strong word. You're never really going to set out to lose, the main objective is not to lose. Now sure losing and doing things a bit better each time is fun, but I whole-heartedly disagree with unfair losses being fun.

Now we're staying civil.  I was worried we'd get mad at each other   I never said unfair losses were fun, honestly.  I just said it was a mantra to COPE with it.  I said unfair losses would happen for certain, and you'd need to be able to handle it to play (since they're going to happen).  If you can't handle it, I don't think this is the game for you purely because when those unfair and brutal losses happen, if you can't handle it you may lose any desire to play again.  Coping with "Fun" is a necessary part of playing Dwarf Fortress.  The mantra "Losing is Fun", as I said, isn't to help with the learning curve but to help when you want to scream after losing all that time and effort due to something minor/unseen/unfair/generally BS.

If he has a backup save? Sure, but he might not of saved for a while...I've killed half the world on Adventure Mode, got the deadly bite of death from a bogeyman and I was done for, regardless of being legendary in most of my stats. It was unfair how I died, I forgot to save, it wasn't as fun as I was promised. Now yeah that's my fault for not saving. But why should this guy have to go back or even lose his entire fort if he hasn't saved, just for the sake of a spoiler?

This is why I said I personally think we should always advise a backed up save when discussing HFS.  We don't even have to give away the magnitude, just "this next part can get ugly, prolly want to back up your save".  In Curious Structures, the undead will be what he assumes are the "can get ugly".  There's miasma, lots of baddies, and who knows what else.  As for adamantine tubes, where there's magma, there's Fun.  Enough said there I feel.  If pressed for details, we can say that mining a vein that runs into magma is dangerous, probably should save for safety's sake.  Save recommended, newbie spared spoilers, everyone wins.

He can save yeah, prepare for it, but not if he didn't know. As for explaining the sheer magnitude of what's underneath...Isn't...That kinda ruining the spoiler? What's your definition of a spoiler's purity?

I think I addressed this in my previous paragraph: we don't (and shouldn't) tell him the sheer magnitude.  Just a gentle reminder from the veterans to save, and some perfectly plausible reasons based solely on what he can see already.  If he chooses to ignore the advice of experienced players, then he deserves all the Fun he can handle.

Also, I feel it's valid to bring up the 2nd poster only spoiled it on the off chance someone did troll him into taking it. It's not like he set out to be an ass on purpose.

Maybe not, but a preemptive strike was a dick move.  It also completely eliminates the OP's say in the matter.  I, in hindsight, regret having the HFS spoiled for me.  I personally have only myself to blame, but I'd be damned upset if someone took my say out of the matter and ruined it for me.  His desire was to protect the OP from trolling, but he was too aggressive.  Everyone has a right to enjoy the game, and there's no way of knowing if having surprises spoiled will affect that until it's too late, so I say err on the side of caution.  If someone does troll him, you can always call their BS and correct the OP.