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Author Topic: Animal Men having a greater role in the game (if you choose.)  (Read 5194 times)

Dent

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Being that they seem to be a mix of sentient and semi-sentient tribes, I was thinking that you should be able to incorporate them into your budding kingdom in Fortress mode.
You would have to have a rather high amount of value to your fortress to suitably awe the lesser mortals, and maybe killing a few first would be enough to change their minds about joining you.
Afterward, though, they could be as controllable as your dwarves, minus quite a few skills that wouldn't make sense for them. No planting, no brewing, no masonry, no cooking, etc.

Ensuring that they breed would be entirely up to the player, so if he manages them incorrectly they're just gone for good. In addition, they would have drawbacks: animal-men from the caverns would be unable to go above ground without vomiting, becoming dizzy, being stunned. Animal-men from above ground would lose happiness unless they got enough light.

I like the idea because it would really add some immersion, what with the foreign invader allying with primitive tribes-creatures for use as scouts/muscle against the natural denizens of the caves in return for protection and civilization or some such. The player could reduce his dwarf presence down below, and certain types of animal men would have huge benefits in specific situations such as Amphibian Men clearing out cave crocodiles so your dwarfs can get water or Cave Swallow Men fighting off giant bats to free up your border garrison's attention for that mega-beast coming through.

Some jobs they could have:

Poison-Maker (To create poison from cavern flora that paralyzes, stuns, applicable to not only their darts and spears but to your dwarfs' bolts.)
Herbalist (To gather said cavern flora)
Weaponmaker (Only wooden spears, blowguns, and blowgun darts)
Hunter

Only the actual "animal" men, not the stone/magma/blizzard/iron varieties. Badger and Capybara above ground, Blind Cave Fish, Amphibian, Reptile, Ant, Bat, Cave Swallow men below ground.

I'm sure the idea won't be very popular (it's DWARF fortress, after all) but if it were implemented as just another option in diplomacy it would add more flavor and what I think would be more immersion. To negate any potential benefit, the elves could object to it on the grounds that it's slavery and cruelty to animals all at once.


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sockless

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Re: Animal Men having a greater role in the game (if you choose.)
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2011, 03:53:01 am »

Well this really is part of a larger idea.

In order to have animalmen as part of your fortress you have to first be able to have other races in your fortress. The problem is that right now the interface isn't really suited to that sort of thing, as people who have made mods which make different castes of dwarves have found.

Now comes the problem of keeping the game as Dwarf Fortress, instead of Multicultural Fortress, there obviously must be some reason to not have these people, and to be honest, elves aren't much of a problem.
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Naryar

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Re: Animal Men having a greater role in the game (if you choose.)
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2011, 06:03:33 am »

I would rather have element men at my disposition. Much more dwarfy.

Reelyanoob

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Re: Animal Men having a greater role in the game (if you choose.)
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2011, 07:17:12 am »

Since you're new here I thought I'd mention Dfusion, the set of utilities which enable some of the options you requested. Maybe you'd like to take a look at that. Unfortunately, you'd still be waiting for animal people to invade, which can be rare (but Dfusion can allow you to start with any mix of creatures), and you'd have to mod them tamable so as to put them to work.

The emphasis should be on new options which enhance things which cannot be created through utils or modding right now. That's the best use of the dev time.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2011, 07:21:16 am by Reelyanoob »
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Bohandas

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Re: Animal Men having a greater role in the game (if you choose.)
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2011, 12:59:46 pm »

Being that they seem to be a mix of sentient and semi-sentient tribes, I was thinking that you should be able to incorporate them into your budding kingdom in Fortress mode.
You would have to have a rather high amount of value to your fortress to suitably awe the lesser mortals, and maybe killing a few first would be enough to change their minds about joining you.
Afterward, though, they could be as controllable as your dwarves, minus quite a few skills that wouldn't make sense for them. No planting, no brewing, no masonry, no cooking, etc.

Ensuring that they breed would be entirely up to the player, so if he manages them incorrectly they're just gone for good. In addition, they would have drawbacks: animal-men from the caverns would be unable to go above ground without vomiting, becoming dizzy, being stunned. Animal-men from above ground would lose happiness unless they got enough light.

I like the idea because it would really add some immersion, what with the foreign invader allying with primitive tribes-creatures for use as scouts/muscle against the natural denizens of the caves in return for protection and civilization or some such. The player could reduce his dwarf presence down below, and certain types of animal men would have huge benefits in specific situations such as Amphibian Men clearing out cave crocodiles so your dwarfs can get water or Cave Swallow Men fighting off giant bats to free up your border garrison's attention for that mega-beast coming through.

This is a very good idea.
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The Steel face palm

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Re: Animal Men having a greater role in the game (if you choose.)
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2011, 12:56:06 pm »

Hmph. I do like the idea of even more depth than the already beautiful world that is dwarf fortress, and every time I see an animal man civilisation is somewhere below me I struggle to find them, only to be greeted by poison darts :(
Still, if they were incorporated into a Dwarf Fortress, surely they'd make the game less Fun? Well Fun for the dwarves anyways, as knowing everyone, those animal men would end up being used as the new war dog, cheap, expendable and effective.
Perhaps add something to balance it, like you can make them angry (in the angry sort of way as hitting an elf with a dead tree angry) which will result in them attacking dwarfs on sight, maybe they'll even use your weapons against you o-O
Or maybe *puts on sunglasses* animal kingdoms
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
will exist prestanding, and the Dwarfies will send traders and diplomats to them? Maybe even have animal civ's that rise to the surface to take overworld civilisations >:D
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Dent

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Re: Animal Men having a greater role in the game (if you choose.)
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2011, 01:15:34 pm »

Well this really is part of a larger idea.

In order to have animalmen as part of your fortress you have to first be able to have other races in your fortress. The problem is that right now the interface isn't really suited to that sort of thing, as people who have made mods which make different castes of dwarves have found.

Now comes the problem of keeping the game as Dwarf Fortress, instead of Multicultural Fortress, there obviously must be some reason to not have these people, and to be honest, elves aren't much of a problem.

Maybe using them could cause other animal men tribes to automatically be at war with you, periodically spawning in raiding groups underground. That way you NEED to micromanage your allies and, if your dwarf population isn't up to the task of assisting them, players who rushed into this too quickly will see their animal-men overwhelmed and the loss of any benefits that came with them.
Having units who can fly/not drown/breed rapidly/create poisons that your dwarfs can't gives you a huge leg up, but taking into consideration multiple small-scale raids per year while goblins/elves/human are besieging you up above, this should be a fairly good deterrent to having animal men on your side.

As for keeping it Dwarf Fortress, the animal men should not have any key labors that they can perform. I'll revise my earlier suggestion and say that poison and weapon-making should be all they're capable of. And military, but they're still stuck using blowguns/spears. I don't think goblins/elves/humans should have any part in your fortress being that they have their own kingdoms and dwarfs don't take slaves, but animal men as native guides makes sense.

Oh, and I have DFusion. Good tool, but there are some things it can't do. I agree that there are other things in development that definitely take precedence over this, but one day..
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NinjaE8825

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Re: Animal Men having a greater role in the game (if you choose.)
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2011, 01:42:08 am »

Hm, this should probably be part of, like, an "empire" arc that lets you subjugate other civs for fun and profit. You'd also need to be able to decide how to treat your new subjects - integration/assimilation/ghettoification, stuff like that, then having it interact with their in-born racial traits.
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The Steel face palm

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Re: Animal Men having a greater role in the game (if you choose.)
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2011, 10:14:49 am »

I like the idea of having to face these animal men ambushes underground, and I agree they shouldn't start taking dwarf jobs (lol?), but how would this balancing system work? Would allying with uber races like tiger men or batmen cause larger ambushes? What if you ally with snail men? :]
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Quote from: Dyret
Also crossbow-wielding giant desert scorpions
Quote from: The Steel face palm
All your base are reclaim by us

I declare war on the badgers. At Winter it begins.

Dent

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Re: Animal Men having a greater role in the game (if you choose.)
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2011, 10:14:49 pm »

I like the idea of having to face these animal men ambushes underground, and I agree they shouldn't start taking dwarf jobs (lol?), but how would this balancing system work? Would allying with uber races like tiger men or batmen cause larger ambushes? What if you ally with snail men? :]

Escargot?

Above-ground animal men wouldn't be that great of a choice, maybe. While underground you have all sorts of animal men, above ground you're a lot more limited. I suppose other civs could see you as blasphemous for taking these abominations of nature as your charges, which would fly well with the humans once they become as xenophobic as planned. "Oh no, human animal hybrids!" sort of thing.
Batmen aren't exactly uber. They're rather frail and can't use good weapons or armor like a dwarf, but their flying does mean that they can be utilized to quickly get across terrain more or less safely, retrieve items outside your walls without getting a cancel message while the monsters outside your door keep scaring your dwarves away.

Ambushes/sieges could be random or specifically suited to go against "your" tribe, so if you have Cave Fish Men, Amphibian Men will show up. If you have Batmen, it'd be Cave Swallow Men. That sort of thing.
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