Topic: Suggestion: Make Ghost's Optional (Read 1718 times)

Reolos · « **on:** June 27, 2014, 06:42:33 am »

Hello,

Quite a simple suggestion actually, either create an option on world creation which enables or disables ghosts, or make the code open source so we can mod it out ourselves if desired. They do add flavor to the game, and certainly stress the need for funeral rights, but I think the addition of this suggestion would further allow the player to customize his world to the level of fantasy he desires, thus improving the game overall.

Thank you.

Witty · « **Reply #1 on:** June 27, 2014, 07:24:55 am »

Eh... seems kind of pointless to add now. Toady mentioned the ability to prescribe the level of fantasy you want during worldgen will eventually be added sometime in the Future. Ghosts as they are now are probably a place holder until souls become more properly refined.

And open source is never happening. Ever.

Deepblade · « **Reply #2 on:** June 27, 2014, 08:21:42 am »

Quote from: Witty on June 27, 2014, 07:24:55 am

And open source is never happening. Ever.

I think Toady has said he'd open the source once the game is complete.

Manveru Taurënér · « **Reply #3 on:** June 27, 2014, 08:28:43 am »

Quote from: Deepblade on June 27, 2014, 08:21:42 am

Quote from: Witty on June 27, 2014, 07:24:55 am
And open source is never happening. Ever.

I think Toady has said he'd open the source once the game is complete.

Which is never happening. Ever

I mean, there are plans for beyond 1.0 even, which is some estimated 20 years off, so yeah.

Reolos · « **Reply #4 on:** June 27, 2014, 09:00:01 am »

Quote from: Witty on June 27, 2014, 07:24:55 am

And open source is never happening. Ever.

I guess I misspoke then. Not open source, but if that code was html, then it could be modded, yes?

Manveru Taurënér · « **Reply #5 on:** June 27, 2014, 09:21:16 am »

Quote from: http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_single.html

Core53, MORE RAW FILES, (Future): Everything should be moved out of the code and into the raw folders, insofar as the processor will allow it. There needs to be a generalized framework for things like plant and animal related materials and products. Not all of the building types will make it out, but workshop and furnace types are certainly good candidates.

How much will actually end up moved out and what customizability it will offer remains to be seen, but it feels like a good bet things like this will be made moddable in the far future. As with most things DF though, don't expect to see it within the next decade.

Dirst · « **Reply #6 on:** June 28, 2014, 01:51:16 pm »

Like Manveru, I think that Reolos is confusing "in the raws" with "open-source". Things in the raws can be modified easily (modified to what one actually want to accomplish is less easy...) but those are really an extensive set of configuration files. Human readable =/= open source.

Now, as for moving ghostly stuff into the raws, that aligns with the development goal that Manveru quoted. However, what Witty mentioned is procedurally generated metaphysics. You would be able to put bounds on it with the raws, but what you end up with in any given game is random. In one world, souls require A Proper Memorial™ to get to the Afterworld (and otherwise haunt the fortress). In another world, souls are reincarnated you end up with children born possessing skills. For additional color, the rules might be different for different civilizations.

Explaining all of that to the player is going to be a challenge.

"Urist McUselessImmigrant has been struck down. His spirit makes one Mandate in return for sparing the Fortress from pestilence. Urist McUselessImmigant mandates the construction of 2 Aluminum Roasts."

assasin · « **Reply #7 on:** June 28, 2014, 03:41:17 pm »

Quote

I guess I misspoke then. Not open source, but if that code was html, then it could be modded, yes?

from Wikipedia

Quote

HTML or HyperText Markup Language is the standard markup language used to create web pages.

HTML is written in the form of HTML elements consisting of tags enclosed in angle brackets (like <html>). HTML tags most commonly come in pairs like <h1> and </h1>, although some tags represent empty elements and so are unpaired, for example <img>. The first tag in a pair is the start tag, and the second tag is the end tag (they are also called opening tags and closing tags).

The purpose of a web browser is to read HTML documents and compose them into visible or audible web pages. The browser does not display the HTML tags, but uses the tags to interpret the content of the page. HTML describes the structure of a website semantically along with cues for presentation, making it a markup language rather than a programming language.

HTML elements form the building blocks of all websites. HTML allows images and objects to be embedded and can be used to create interactive forms. It provides a means to create structured documents by denoting structural semantics for text such as headings, paragraphs, lists, links, quotes and other items. It can embed scripts written in languages such as JavaScript which affect the behavior of HTML web pages.

Web browsers can also refer to Cascading Style Sheets (CSS) to define the look and layout of text and other material. The W3C, maintainer of both the HTML and the CSS standards, encourages the use of CSS over explicit presentational HTML.[

from dwarf fortress wiki

Quote

Raw files are text files found in the raw/objects/ subdirectory of Dwarf Fortress (used for world generation), as well as inside the saved game folder (data/save/<region name>/raw/objects/) for already generated worlds. These files can be looked through to discover various specifics of game items, materials, and creatures, and can be changed to alter how the game behaves. They are sometimes referred to by players as just "the raws".

The raw/graphics subfolder of Dwarf Fortress is used to store user-customizable graphics sets. The raw/interaction examples folder is absolutely useless and completely ignored by Dwarf Fortress.

Dwarf Fortress is not an open source program, so most modding of the game is limited to altering the raws or doing memory hacking.

Duplicating the raw files can cause several bugs, and even crashes. The game gets very messy and buggy when you do it.

Dirst · « **Reply #8 on:** June 28, 2014, 03:55:05 pm »

Quote from: assasin on June 28, 2014, 03:41:17 pm

Quote
I guess I misspoke then. Not open source, but if that code was html, then it could be modded, yes?

from Wikipedia
Quote
HTML or HyperText Markup Language is the standard markup language used to create web pages.

HTML is written in the form of HTML elements consisting of tags enclosed in angle brackets (like <html>). HTML tags most commonly come in pairs like <h1> and </h1>, although some tags represent empty elements and so are unpaired, for example <img>. The first tag in a pair is the start tag, and the second tag is the end tag (they are also called opening tags and closing tags).

The purpose of a web browser is to read HTML documents and compose them into visible or audible web pages. The browser does not display the HTML tags, but uses the tags to interpret the content of the page. HTML describes the structure of a website semantically along with cues for presentation, making it a markup language rather than a programming language.

HTML elements form the building blocks of all websites. HTML allows images and objects to be embedded and can be used to create interactive forms. It provides a means to create structured documents by denoting structural semantics for text such as headings, paragraphs, lists, links, quotes and other items. It can embed scripts written in languages such as JavaScript which affect the behavior of HTML web pages.

Web browsers can also refer to Cascading Style Sheets (CSS) to define the look and layout of text and other material. The W3C, maintainer of both the HTML and the CSS standards, encourages the use of CSS over explicit presentational HTML.[

from dwarf fortress wiki
Quote
Raw files are text files found in the raw/objects/ subdirectory of Dwarf Fortress (used for world generation), as well as inside the saved game folder (data/save/<region name>/raw/objects/) for already generated worlds. These files can be looked through to discover various specifics of game items, materials, and creatures, and can be changed to alter how the game behaves. They are sometimes referred to by players as just "the raws".

The raw/graphics subfolder of Dwarf Fortress is used to store user-customizable graphics sets. The raw/interaction examples folder is absolutely useless and completely ignored by Dwarf Fortress.

Dwarf Fortress is not an open source program, so most modding of the game is limited to altering the raws or doing memory hacking.

Duplicating the raw files can cause several bugs, and even crashes. The game gets very messy and buggy when you do it.

You you have the idea, except that the raws are not formatted in HTML, XML, or any other standard. The code in the raws looks like:

Code: [Select]

[CREATURE:DOG]
    [CREATURE_TILE:'d'][COLOR:6:0:0]
    [PETVALUE:30][NATURAL]
    [LARGE_ROAMING]
    [COMMON_DOMESTIC][TRAINABLE][PET]

The actual entry for dogs is much longer, but you get the idea. The items in brackets are called tags; some take parameters and some don't. The raws allow for an amazing level of customization, but the only tags available are the ones coded by Toady One, which means you cannot make arbitrary changes. For a case in point, currently there are no tags that affect ghosting.

assasin · « **Reply #9 on:** June 28, 2014, 05:24:22 pm »

Quote

You you have the idea, except that the raws are not formatted in HTML, XML, or any other standard. The code in the raws looks like:

I have what idea? The quote from Wikipedia clearly says HTML is for web pages. Maybe I should've added more to the post. What I was trying to do was say that dwarf fortress cannot be modded through HTML and the raws are the text files which need to be edited. I am not be an expert. I've done some minor modding of dwarf fortress and I have started to learn some very basic web design; but its enough for me to know the difference between the two. Are you sure you replied to the right post?

Helari · « **Reply #10 on:** June 29, 2014, 12:29:00 pm »

Quote from: Manveru Taurënér on June 27, 2014, 08:28:43 am

Quote from: Deepblade on June 27, 2014, 08:21:42 am
Quote from: Witty on June 27, 2014, 07:24:55 am
And open source is never happening. Ever.

I think Toady has said he'd open the source once the game is complete.

Which is never happening. Ever

I mean, there are plans for beyond 1.0 even, which is some estimated 20 years off, so yeah.

The source code will be released when Toady dies and if there is no indication of him being killed to have the source code released :V

Also 20 years can feel like "FOREVER" if you haven't lived even nearly that long but actually it's just like 1/4th of our life.

Dirst · « **Reply #11 on:** July 01, 2014, 01:44:07 pm »

Quote from: assasin on June 28, 2014, 05:24:22 pm

Quote
You you have the idea, except that the raws are not formatted in HTML, XML, or any other standard. The code in the raws looks like:

I have what idea? The quote from Wikipedia clearly says HTML is for web pages. Maybe I should've added more to the post. What I was trying to do was say that dwarf fortress cannot be modded through HTML and the raws are the text files which need to be edited. I am not be an expert. I've done some minor modding of dwarf fortress and I have started to learn some very basic web design; but its enough for me to know the difference between the two. Are you sure you replied to the right post?

Sorry for the confusion. Just read what I wrote as an expansion on what you wrote, not trying to correct it.

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Author Topic: Suggestion: Make Ghost's Optional (Read 1718 times)

Reolos

Suggestion: Make Ghost's Optional

Witty

Re: Suggestion: Make Ghost's Optional

Deepblade

Re: Suggestion: Make Ghost's Optional

Manveru Taurënér

Re: Suggestion: Make Ghost's Optional

Reolos

Re: Suggestion: Make Ghost's Optional

Manveru Taurënér

Re: Suggestion: Make Ghost's Optional

Dirst

Re: Suggestion: Make Ghost's Optional

assasin

Re: Suggestion: Make Ghost's Optional

Dirst

Re: Suggestion: Make Ghost's Optional

assasin

Re: Suggestion: Make Ghost's Optional

Helari

Re: Suggestion: Make Ghost's Optional

Dirst

Re: Suggestion: Make Ghost's Optional