Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Author Topic: Sudan  (Read 1212 times)

Duuvian

  • Bay Watcher
  • Internet ≠ Real Life
    • View Profile
Sudan
« on: May 22, 2011, 12:42:05 am »

Hi. I was just wondering if anyone knew if Xe services (formally Blackwater) are still operating in Sudan? Apparently 'South Sudanese' forces are stirring up trouble by attacking the North and possibly also the UN, and I have to wonder why and what South Sudanese gain from such a provocation. Meanwhile, there is a 'Northern backed' force causing trouble in the South. I certainly hope they have considered the idea that an arms-dealing private military contractor with as much to gain as Xe possibly stands to is just as reasonable a suspect as their (former) countrymen. They have certainly proven their lack of respect for law in the past (see the later links)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110520/pl_afp/sudanunrestabyeius_20110520195916

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/21/world/21blackwater.html
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/06/27/96579/obama-wont-charge-blackwater-with.html
http://africadefensejournal.wordpress.com/2011/05/18/africas-new-breed-of-dogs-of-war/
http://www.sudanvisiondaily.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=60178

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

 Does Xe = Halbech from Alpha Protocol? It seems to me that they stand to make significant money from governmental contracts; but mostly if that government fears future fighting.

The last I heard Xe's terms were sole access to a very, very significant percentage of Sudan's mostly untapped natural resources. I'm talking half of their untapped oil reserves.

Also, who is this Oliny guy causing trouble in the South?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12666585
http://www.xe.com/news/2011-03-12%2004:02:00.0/1762377.htm

In summary, a possibly Northern Sudan backed former military leader who lost in the latest elections decides to cause military problems in South Sudan, where Xe services was attempting to get a ridiculously lucrative contract. He is assisted by a third force, led by someone Google has not heard of and apparently is unknown enough to not warrant a prior news story. Alternatively, it could be an assumed name.

Also, I think I found the reason why poppy cultivation in Afghanistan kept going up for years and years:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackwater_Worldwide
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also from the wiki page:
Newly appointed CIA director Leon Panetta had recently acknowledged a planned secret targeted killing program, one withheld from Congressional oversight. Manzetti's sources, which tied the program to Blackwater, declined to have their names made public. The CIA was acting on a 2001 presidential legal pronouncement, known as a finding, which authorized the CIA to pursue such efforts.[182] Several million dollars were spent on planning and training, but it was never operationalized and no militants were caught or captured.[182][183] Jeremy Scahill reported in The Nation in November 2009 that Blackwater operate alongside the CIA in Pakistan in "snatch and grab" operations targeting senior members of the Taliban and Al Qaeda. The report cited an unnamed source who has worked on covert US military programs, who revealed that senior members of the Obama administration may not be aware that Blackwater is operating under a US contract in Pakistan. A former Blackwater executive confirmed that they operate covertly in Pakistan. A spokesman for Blackwater denied the claims, stating that they have "only one employee in Pakistan."[184] In December 2009, the CIA canceled their contract with Blackwater to load bombs onto drone aircraft in Afghanistan and Pakistan.[185]

In other words they were payed millions of dollars for operations of questionable legality in a foreign country; that never happened. Even if the first part of that sentence does not make you wonder, the last part should.
Logged
FINISHED original composition:
https://app.box.com/s/jq526ppvri67astrc23bwvgrkxaicedj

Sort of finished and awaiting remix due to loss of most recent song file before addition of drums:
https://www.box.com/s/s3oba05kh8mfi3sorjm0 <-zguit

thobal

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Sudan
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2011, 01:03:00 am »

Mercenaries are often promised a substantial fraction of the spoils of war.

How would you suggest we deny it to them?
Logged
Signature goes here.

Duuvian

  • Bay Watcher
  • Internet ≠ Real Life
    • View Profile
Re: Sudan
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2011, 01:54:52 am »

Try to make war unprofitable I would suppose. Perhaps an attempt at some form of new Geneva convention. A big one. Maybe if Obama gets a second term, that would be a good thing to work towards with with as many countries as possible. I think it would be something that looks good for everyone's political resume, so I think it would be hard for many foreign leaders to ignore, as I'm sure their people would thank them if it was fair.
Logged
FINISHED original composition:
https://app.box.com/s/jq526ppvri67astrc23bwvgrkxaicedj

Sort of finished and awaiting remix due to loss of most recent song file before addition of drums:
https://www.box.com/s/s3oba05kh8mfi3sorjm0 <-zguit

Aqizzar

  • Bay Watcher
  • There is no 'U'.
    • View Profile
Re: Sudan
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2011, 02:14:04 am »

Try to make war unprofitable I would suppose. Perhaps an attempt at some form of new Geneva convention. A big one.

The Geneva Conventions already ban "mercenaries" in the role of offensive troops paid to make war.  Defensive security forces and training and command consultants are legal, which means basically all mercenaries are legal, because there's no enforcement of offensive-vs-defensive contract soldiers in fucking war zones, especially not in wars absent of NATO powers.  I hadn't heard before about Blackwater or ex-Blackwater troops being involved in Sudan, but it doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

If anything, it does raise the question of how much longer the Sudan is going to be host to two different ethnic civil wars at once, with a good pool of oil in the balance, before some major foreign powers decide to intervene.  It's getting ridiculous at this point, and you'd think some western powers would be eager to shake off the bad karma of another Rwanda.
Logged
And here is where my beef pops up like a looming awkward boner.
Please amplify your relaxed states.
Quote from: PTTG??
The ancients built these quote pyramids to forever store vast quantities of rage.

Strife26

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Sudan
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2011, 04:27:08 am »

I'm relatively sure that Xe/Blackwater doesn't actually sell weapons, just rents the people who use 'em.
Logged
Even the avatars expire eventually.

Virex

  • Bay Watcher
  • Subjects interest attracted. Annalyses pending...
    • View Profile
Re: Sudan
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2011, 01:31:16 pm »

Considering that large-scale genocide has been the national sport of Sudan for twice as long as I've been alive, I don't find it too surprising that some people haven't been able to let their old habits go.
Logged

RedKing

  • Bay Watcher
  • hoo hoo motherfucker
    • View Profile
Re: Sudan
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2011, 02:10:02 pm »

Interesting tidbit: If Xe is involved in Sudan, it's likely in violation of US law. American citizens and American-headquartered companies are barred from training, equipping and/or fighting on behalf of foreign militaries without applying and receiving a waiver from the State Department.

To my knowledge, Xe has not made any such application. They're currently under scrutiny for their activities in creating a "independent security force" in the UAE, composed mostly of Colombians and other assorted South Americans. Part of the mindset appears to be that the UAE figures non-Muslim non-Arab troops won't have as much qualms about crushing protesters than native troops might.

The condotierri are making a comeback...
Logged

Remember, knowledge is power. The power to make other people feel stupid.
Quote from: Neil DeGrasse Tyson
Science is like an inoculation against charlatans who would have you believe whatever it is they tell you.

Duuvian

  • Bay Watcher
  • Internet ≠ Real Life
    • View Profile
Re: Sudan
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2011, 03:09:57 am »

Interesting tidbit: If Xe is involved in Sudan, it's likely in violation of US law. American citizens and American-headquartered companies are barred from training, equipping and/or fighting on behalf of foreign militaries without applying and receiving a waiver from the State Department.

To my knowledge, Xe has not made any such application. They're currently under scrutiny for their activities in creating a "independent security force" in the UAE, composed mostly of Colombians and other assorted South Americans. Part of the mindset appears to be that the UAE figures non-Muslim non-Arab troops won't have as much qualms about crushing protesters than native troops might.

The condotierri are making a comeback...

Thanks Redking.

Also someone sent me these links about what you were talking about,

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110515/ts_nm/us_uae_troops
http://willyloman.wordpress.com/2011/05/15/kingfish-and-his-for-profit-death-squads/
http://www.mpacuk.org/story/220511/uae-hire-erik-princes-blackwaterxe-mercenaries.html
http://www.kansascity.com/2011/05/19/2887284/commentary-fun-in-abu-dhabi-with.html

Amazingly enough, I found this too: http://www.revolutiondaily.com/chinese-labor-camp-guards-forced-prisoners-to-play-world-of-warcraft-in-lucrative-internet-gaming-scam/

I knew I wasn't crazy when I said the Chinese government was using DDO to do stuff! I knew it!

EDIT: > Fistpump

EDIT2: Also that explains the irrational loathing of some Chinese players for me for the fact that I want to enjoy the game sometimes and not rush though it as fast as possible sometimes in DDO. Poor guy is being whipped or tortured or something and all he can do is type Go Now and jumping up and down next to me, while I try to read every single quest storyline because I haven't done that quest yet dammit; or I did it before and I got rushed through it so I'm going to read it this time.

EDIT3: Also I found this stuff after some more searching:
http://www.redfour-group.com/news/48-what-is-al-shabaab-is-really-up-to.html

http://www.redfour-group.com/index.php/images/stories/the-benefit-of-somalias-pirates-comes-full-circle.html

http://www.redfour-group.com/the-death-of-a-pirate.html <-especially interesting

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Sounds like some serious dudes
« Last Edit: May 27, 2011, 04:11:30 am by Duuvian »
Logged
FINISHED original composition:
https://app.box.com/s/jq526ppvri67astrc23bwvgrkxaicedj

Sort of finished and awaiting remix due to loss of most recent song file before addition of drums:
https://www.box.com/s/s3oba05kh8mfi3sorjm0 <-zguit