Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Author Topic: Training- Does It Work Yet?  (Read 973 times)

Cespinarve

  • Bay Watcher
  • Lege lege lege relege labora et invenies
    • View Profile
Training- Does It Work Yet?
« on: April 10, 2011, 01:36:02 pm »

Alright, I haven't moved on from, I thin, .19, but I haven't seen anything about training being fixed. Has it reached the point where I can hand them a training schedule and expect all the dwarves to show up and improve their skills?

I'm guessing "probably not", but I thought I'd ask. Because if it's not fixed, invasions stay off.
Logged
Nice one, not sure when I'll be feeling like killing a baby but these things are good to know.
This is why we can't have nice things... someone will just wind up filling it with corpses.
Arrakis teaches the attitude of the knife — chopping off what's incomplete and saying: "Now it's complete because it's ended here."

FuzzyZergling

  • Bay Watcher
  • Zergin' erry day.
    • View Profile
Re: Training- Does It Work Yet?
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2011, 02:30:33 pm »

Fixed? Was it broken?
Logged

Wyvern

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Training- Does It Work Yet?
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2011, 02:58:39 pm »

It works inasmuch as dwarves actually do the things they intend to do, as opposed to being locked eternally in "waiting for X" loops (though I'm pretty sure that was already true as of 31.19 and had been for a while).  But the rate at which brand-new recruits gain skills from scratch through demonstrations alone is abysmally poor in my experience, and sparring barely happens at all until they're already fairly competent (and even then not terribly often, as far as I can tell).  I'm not sure if I've ever seen one rise above novice anything from dabbling through passive training alone.  I find that it's much better to hunt wildlife or cavern monsters for gaining experience to start with; it's pretty safe even for totally unskilled dwarves if they're fully armored and it really kickstarts your training a lot.  You'll have enough at competent or better to stave off your first goblin ambush, and although you might lose a couple of unlucky soldiers the survivors will have learned so much more from the fighting that they'll be in even better shape from then on out.

Also, healthcare actually functions smoothly now, so soldiers who are wounded but don't take damage to the central nervous system will make full or near-full recoveries, which is arguably a bigger boon for military functionality than increased training anyway.

You can also do the "danger room" thing where you station your armored recruits over repeating upright wooden spike traps for fast experience, but I've never been particularly fond of that method.
Logged

Dutchling

  • Bay Watcher
  • Ridin' with Biden
    • View Profile
Re: Training- Does It Work Yet?
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2011, 03:05:45 pm »

Dwarves can be legendary in 5+ years if you put 10 in a squad and let all 10 of them train 12months a year.
So yeah, it works
Logged

Fayceless

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Training- Does It Work Yet?
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2011, 03:08:41 pm »

Fixed? Was it broken?

Yeah, it can be tricky to get it to work right but it's not been broken for some time.

I've been having some difficulty with my latest fort, getting the dwarves to train properly, but I haven't looked into much as I'm still waiting for caravans to show up with some iron and steel for me to outfit my military.  I'm sure there's a reason I can't get it to work right I just haven't bothered to figure out where I messed up.

But training does work, you've just got to make sure you set it all up right.  Honestly I don't remember what all there is you can do wrong, I used to know.  :(
Logged

FuzzyZergling

  • Bay Watcher
  • Zergin' erry day.
    • View Profile
Re: Training- Does It Work Yet?
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2011, 03:14:10 pm »

Don't let your dwarves off training too often, because they may stop just before gaining experience from a demonstration.
To maximize sparring, useing a two-man squad is very effective.
Logged

BurnedToast

  • Bay Watcher
  • Personal Text
    • View Profile
Re: Training- Does It Work Yet?
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2011, 06:20:42 pm »

It works fine.

Training up recruits when none of them have any skill at all is very slow, but that's what you would expect. Toss a skilled migrant in there (they are pretty common really) preferable with teacher skill, and they will train up fine.

Even just raw recruits with no skill will get you skilled dwarves in a couple of years, especially if you don't mind sending them against the goblins and just accepting some losses. The ones who survive and learn will teach the new recruits you toss in there and next time even more will survive.

Remember, dwarves are pretty much completely disposable.
Logged
An ambush! curse all friends of nature!

wuphonsreach

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Training- Does It Work Yet?
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2011, 06:46:05 pm »

You can also train your dwarves by having them chase the local livestock around the map for a season or two.

I get good results by taking the best skilled dwarf, putting him as the captain of the squad, then giving him 4 raw recruits and a year-round schedule of "train 3+".  When that first melee squad gets good, I split the squads and make everyone captain of additional squads.

So yes, it works (and not much different then 31.18 - the really nice bit in 31.25 is that the hospital *works*).
Logged

SpiralDimentia

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Training- Does It Work Yet?
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2011, 07:17:55 pm »

I would say training works, even without 2-dwarf groups for sparring and danger rooms. My latest [and best] fortress has only had 1 real squad, and only 7 of them were any good. 3 were still recruits when I had about 15-16 goblins show up. I lured them away and thinned them out alittle, then had a major 12vs10 battle royale, and ended up winning. I also fought off two forgotten beasts so far. So while it's not the fastest... it doesn't need to be.
Logged
Dragonwork, A Successful Failure.
Legacy of Insightshields
Many more made tales in this hall,
before the stronghold found it's fall.
An enemy none could stop or yield,
had taken over Insightshields.

Mushroo

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Training- Does It Work Yet?
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2011, 07:28:53 pm »

Training in .25 "works" in the sense that, with a good teacher and proper training exercises, dwarf soldiers will become decent fighters over the course of 5-10 years. This seems fairly "realistic" to me.

If you are looking for a "Rocky training montage" to get Legendary fighters in a few months, you'll need to use danger rooms.
Logged

clockwork

  • Bay Watcher
  • Dabbling Performer
    • View Profile
Re: Training- Does It Work Yet?
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2011, 07:22:51 am »

I've started with dwarves, each competent in a combat skill, different from the other dwarves, all of them novice students, novice concentration, and skilled teachers. They were all competent in each others skills after mmmm less than a year or so. Not so sure on the time-frame, but it wasn't long.
Logged

BuGGaTon

  • Bay Watcher
  • Fake Dorfly Mentor
    • View Profile
    • BoredGamer
Re: Training- Does It Work Yet?
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2011, 09:18:37 am »

I build full units dedicated to weapon types and place anyone with a weapon skill above dabbling in those groups.  Any peasants (recruits or wrestlers) who have no weapon skills go into my pit training scheme.  I catch wildlife/invaders in sporadic cage traps and get my recruits to go at them.  When any of them get a full skill level they can start sparring and immediately go into a full unit group.

My marksdwarves go from pants to legendary in 18-24 months.  Once they  become elite they skill up much MUCH faster.  I had a swordsdwarf go professional and he went from that (level 10) to legendary in a few seasons void of combat proper.
Logged
Have any gameplay questions?  Try asking me during a live stream for a quick and helpful, yet derogatory reply!  Bloody elves.

http://www.twitch.tv/boredgameruk

DTF

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Training- Does It Work Yet?
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2011, 10:47:10 am »

What I found most annoying is when you, say, have 2 competent axe dwarfs + 1 competent "Misc. Object User" in a squad. Instead of practicing axefighting that one guy would lead Misc. Object Demonstrations (fighting with chairs etc).
That is why I usually use entirely novice migrants for my military. They will be only taught what they need to learn and thus won't teach anyone else how to bite or kick someone (it would be a viable option if you fought with a pointy piece of mango, but not with a steel axe).

I use danger rooms since a 3-man legendary fighter cell is easier to handle in a fight than a full squad of totally noobish recruits that sometimes wont even bring their whole gear to the fight.
Personally, I just think a danger room is some kind of 24/7 Sgt. Hartman Marines obstacle course sort of thing - a very effective one at that, though.
Logged
(a>b) ? false : true