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[Evile]

Preamble:
             I am quite new to posting here as shown by my post count. I will therefore act as average noob and post my "suggestions" without much reading or searching onto similar topics  .Jk but feel free to ignore my most bizarre topics accordingly.

N.B. there are no actual spoilers under spoiler tag.

Fable:
             Liquid

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I assume liquid flow propositions for materials different from water and magma were raised many times over; main confusion remains is how to combine them.

Step 1: "liquid" creation

Method A - loss of specificity due to dilution

- "Named" Dragon bleeds over well - the blood falls to the bottom and forms a "splattering of named dragon blood", then "pool of..." and then "1/7 Named dragon blood". Consecutive bleedings produce deeper pond of same "Named Dragon blood" pool.

- another dragon comes over to a grate and starts the bleeding process - upon contact the blood looses the name and becomes "Dragon blood" (perhaps containing names of creatures that "contributed to the pool" in its description)

- If a kitten comes over to that grate and pukes a little bit of it's own blood into the pool it would transform the entire pool into "Blood"

Method B - Nameless blood

- All creatures bleed same blood that keeps track of the contributors via description menu. Game treats all blood as identical liquid.

Method CDEF... - varying combinations of A and B

N.B.
- same mechanics can be applied to booze (e.g.: dwarven beer - beer - alcohol)

Similar mechanics could be applied to the ichor and other contaminants but I personally perceive them as something sticky and not prone to flow.

Note, that I do not discuss varying degrees of blood mixing due to the fact that it is actually harder to keep your "liquid" pure - if you want kitten blood bath for Armok altar - be mindful of cleaning your shoes before entering the holy place.

Step 2: "liquid" combination

Method A: Fast contamination

- Non-water liquid, when comes into contact with water turns it to "contaminated water" or "contaminated salt water" instantaneously. Contaminated water acts as water but undrinkable/contains syndromes/deadly to aquatic life/outright deadly (underline what is needed or based on the type of contamination)

Method B: Dilutions

- Non-water liquid can have few dilutions based on how many times it got contacted with water - (Use the flags similar to grass growth) and only after a handful of watery additives would turn into contaminated water.

N.B.
- Two non-water liquids can form "contaminant liquid", "bloody alcohol", "WTF-liquid" etc. (all depends on how many new liquids are introduced - if more than two combinations present one can have multiple or few mixes: general "WTF-liquid" and predesigned mixes from specific liquids - further combination of which produces same "WTF-liquid)

- Further modifications to contaminated water can do few things:
     I) Nothing - you contaminated that pool of water forever (until fully treated with magma)
     II) Slow purification - add contamination level count to the liquid (a.k.a grass growth) that gets smaller over time or after contact with more clean water.
     III) Seasonal purification - you get clean water as a Christmas gift.
     IV) Treated by cold - contaminated water forms normal ice

            Temperature

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Suggestion 1:

We all know about how COOL the ice can be but its not cool to have it melt or freeze so fast!

Assuming we have a 7/7 water tile which corresponds to approximation of 27 cubic meters (taken from NW_Kohaku suggestion).
We are stuck with 27,000 kg of water (or 27,000,000g) that cools (or warms up) over surface of 6 m2 (top or bottom of the tile)

Knowing that underground water starts at 10015U the water has to drop 15Urists in temperature or 8.3K

Amount of water in the tile would need to loose 900,590,670 kJ of energy to freeze over...

...sigh i wish i knew physics but if i am not mistaken only Fourier equation revolves around time although i am not sure what to substitute as thickness of a barrier...or just treat the entire layer of water as barrier and wait until temperature under it reaches 1000 Urists?. I, however, still not sure, that such amount of water can freeze so goddamn fast (i will edit my post as soon as i find more proper equation.

Assuming TU equals 72 seconds...i think its possible to give water a counter...

Due to water teleportation the first exposed tile probably gonna freeze first...which would cause problems...Although having outflow sealed would stop the spread of water and consecutive ice walls will follow - this might create a a nice phenomena of: more pressure = more water leaks out before cooling = bigger surrounding area under ice

(think of the water traps that spray goblins with water = directional attacks) 

its probably also possible to have freeze counters significantly shorter in tiles with 2/7 water (1/7 can turn into ice floor at leisure - it wont impede water flow) therefore under high pressure water leaves at speeds way above cooling time and reaches 7/7 level in no time. When water reaches certain area, pressure lowers to the point where water cannot contain high wave and collapses forming 1/7 - 6/7 poodles. 2/7 with very low counter would freeze first encapsulating the water within.


  #           #                #                     #2                   ##                         ##
  #           #                #7                   #62                  #6#                       ###
  #           #                #77                 #762          .      #76#                     ####
##         ##7            ##777              ##7762             ##776#                  ######
7X          7777           777777            77777762           7777776#              77######
##         ##7            ##777              ##7762             ##776#                  ######
  #           #                #77                 #762          .      #76#                     ####
  #           #                #7                   #62                  #6#                       ###
  #           #                #                     #2                   ##                         ##


note that this is rough representation.

Suggestion 2:

I would like to see something similar towards water melting as well, although this can be offset by:

Suggestion 3:

Warm tiles should really be WARM No matter how sturdy the creature is but walking, 3 m of rock (that is if we assume that difference between z=levels has same thickness) away from !!MAGMA!!, barefoot is not a good past time.

Same with water.

I fail to see how rock ceiling can lower the temperature from 1111 C (magma) into measly 42 C (warm rock).
It should be high enough to boil the water at least, or scald dorfs without socks.

which in turn leads us into:

            Vapor production and gas pressure!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Water boiled produces steam and, if I am not mistaken, 1 unit of water can make 1600 units of steam at same pressure. Frankly creation of such tremendous amounts of steam can be fatal the game fps, maybe to the game itself ( do not let the steam escape through your cpu at least!)

Therefore more mediocre production of steam is needed (values can be modified later but something along 10x maybe?).

Method A:

Vapor produced can act as both liquid and item (i dont know if its possible but these are just suggestions I do not enforce Toady to make these asap).

it is acts as liquid for 7/7 form and flow but at the same time (when there is no place to expand) it STACKS in single tile as an item so in a 1 tile room a stack of 10x 7/7 would behave normally until a door is opened then vapor (or any other gas for that matter) escapes through the opening as it is under 10 z-levels of pressure

Vertical view:

###      #                       ###     #          ###**  #
###      #                       ###***#         ###***#
###    ##        open door ###**##         ###**##
#&X  ###                      . #$**###         #***###
#######                       #######         #######

& is 7/7 gas (heavier than air) stacked 10x
$ is same stacked 3 times
* is average 7/7 gas

the top probably split into 5 5 4 or something

Method B:

Same old grass growth token. allow 7/7 of gas to double its volume for the loss of token. Surprisingly this would be harder due uneven stacking when pressure is increased as well as pressure calculation for outflow.

Enough for mechanics...lets talk about:

            Babies revamped (and nobles)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

We have pastures right - why can't we make "pastures" for children - let it require some toys as cost to build and toys\milk booze to contain a single baby for limited time.

Because damn it all i want to create Fish Speaker army!

At the same time it would make that craft junk somewhat usable....

Of course the quality of the toy matters...(give your child an average run-of-the-mill toy and observe the responce  )

Also we should make babies more hardcore - they tend to be spoiled and they do not usually behave in a way grown dwarf does.
So the tantrum chance should be increased - in fact infants should probably tantrum every time their happiness goes below fine.
Another good idea for more hardcore fort is to make noble children act like nobles (for these who inherit nobility) with their own mandates (toys anyone?)

To prevent noble slaughter (pun was intended) of babies, their parents should enforce the justice on whoever they think deserves it: random dwarves the teary mother "saw" with their baby last, or guards/hammerer for not doing their duty properly.

After this the given (or all of them) noble would feel threatened (or in general after "noble" death) and demand more guards as their protection. Which should be executed on the spot, whenever they fail to protect the noble life.

This execution is given by other nobles (maybe the mayor/expedition leader if he has high law-abiding stat)

So when you need to start the revolution you dont just eliminate one - you have to purge them all.

This in response might anger your own civilization: they provide you with their precious nobles and your group fails to protect them.
This is also can depend on the leader - if your dwarven civilization is ruled by daemon - they might be happier for your "noble" deed.

By the way if a certain race is ruled by another race it might be nice to have nobles only or mostly from that given race.
 

            Item boni

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Because mining with wood pick should be quite damn slow compared to candy one (quality applies as well)

This can be as skill modifier - while you are somewhat proficient the steel pickaxe (or anvil  ) would help but at legendary +5 serve almost no purpose (of course using wood pick would have penalties all the time)

Frankly i am not sure if its already implemented...

BUT

The aforementioned toys for the nursery - imagine if you supply that nursery with toy axes? 
You wont get legendary military when they grow up, but having a 1-5 extra points when they grow up would be a bonus. (or carpenters)

toy hammers - crafting or hammerfighting
toy anvils - crafting
puzzle boxes - maybe some random "intelligent" profession
rings and jewelry - jewelcrafting
etc...

I would probably ramble more but atm my head killing me so i would let you guys brew on this info for now before adding to the fire...

Edit:
-got some typos and expanded some sections a bit.

 

[NW_Kohaku]

OK, there's a lot of topics to tackle, here...

First off, there are only two kinds of fluids in the game currently for a reason.  Fluids are contained in map data, which is very compressed, and contained in every map tile's data, unlike contaminants, which only have data on the places where they actually exist.

Having named blood as a fluid type would be extremely difficult to program and keep track of.

Likewise, the reason that changes with contaminants occur instantly is to prevent any necessity for a transition phase between clean and contaminated water. 

Water and magma are the only current liquids because these liquids aren't really capable of mixing, and Toady hasn't wanted to create some mixture code thus far, since it would be a major amount of work.

There can't just be a "WTF liquid", that needs to have specific properties.  Every single variant or combination of liquids would need to have its own properties and ways for dwarves to react to them.

The same problem goes for water that is turning into ice.  You'd need to have properties for the transition phases, as well.

Liquids currently "slosh" in a random manner - they literally just check a random space nearby to see if the fluid level there is lower than the fluid level in the tile that is doing the check, and passes at least one unit of fluid over if there is room for it.  This is a big reason why liquids are so memory-check intensive.

I'm really not sure what you're talking about with gasses being an item, here.  What I can say is that you seem to be wanting to talk about pressure, which makes me wonder why you are talking about a different mechanic for 7/7 gas.

You probably shouldn't put childcare into a thread that had previously been about fluids... You should really keep one single system in mind when creating a thread, and maybe just make multiple threads for multiple topics.  It makes it hard to debate the topic if there are several different topics to talk about.  (And while I'm on it, it's best to just continue to add onto an existing topic if you just want to expand on someone else's idea unless you are making a pretty comprehensive change to the whole system.)

The entire childcare section (and subsequent childcare tools section) seems to be pretty disorganized.  Are we talking about babies or children?  Babies don't do anything but cling onto their mother like they were monkeys. Children are currently mostly like nobles, and there have been several suggestions involving the way in which this can be addressed, including schools and apprenticeships and such.

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=40464.msg708906#msg708906
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=61620.0
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=62645.msg1437948#msg1437948
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=31151.msg430682#msg430682
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=34618.msg526904#msg526904


Sorry, I'm a little tired right now, so that's about all the focus I can apply to your thread right now...