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[MetalGear]

Title. I want to make an aboveground fort and I want to know where can I get seeds for aboveground plants. IIRC, all the seeds available at embark are underground. I think humans bring surface plant seeds in their caravans, but I really don't want to wait that long.

Also, will the following design work for making a big shaft with a spiral ramps/stairway around the edge? (I want to have a giant shaft in the middle of my surface town, leading straight down to the magma sea)

# - wall, . - open space, > - stair/ramp

Z:
#####
#>.....#
#.......#
#####

Z - 1:
#####
#.......#
#>.....#
#####

Z - 2:
#####
#.......#
#..>...#
#####

...and so on, with the ramp/stair going around.

[Nirreln]

Gather plants will let you collect native plants on your map, which you can brew/process/eat for seeds. Also humans and elfs can bring surface plant seeds.

[MetalGear]

So, if I just gather plants, will I be able to get a farm running before starvation starts? I usually bring a total of 120 units of meat at embark. Will that last long enough? Also, I assume that surface plants are seasonal. I always used to rely on the plump helmets to be growing year-round, so this should be fun.

[Hans Lemurson]

Surface plants seem to grow equally well in all seasons.  Maybe the snows of winter might have some effect, but I doubt it.

I also think that underground plants growing in caverns pop up randomly regardless of season.  I'd have to check on that though.

It is indeed odd that the only food production affected by seasons is growing crops underground that have never known the light of day, and also fishing (if your rivers freeze).

[Fredd]

Embarking with a proficient miller/plant processor helps, if you are going to depend on above ground crops, with a proficient plant gatherer too. Longlandgrass seems to be the best choice to plant, since the wheat can be used, in prepared meals,and in unmilled form, eaten raw, or brewed.
 Utilize, on embark, the cheap price of sand bags. As soon as you can, either through stock menu, or individual dumping, dump the sand. that way you can get lots of free bags, for seed storage, or wheat storage. When you decide, the dwarfs are safe from starvation, process any bladeweed, you have collected, for emerald dye, to trade.

[Drawde]

I'm fairly certain that surface shrubs are seasonal.  The surface farms you plant aren't though.

[Farmerbob]

  I start with 5 miners.  Each miner has a secondary skill, mason, mechanic, stonecrafter, cook, brewer.  I also have a farmer, who only has 8 social skills + plant and gather skills.  My last dwarf has all 10 points in leader / administrative skills, and a couple social skills.

  I embark with 30 meat, 20 plump helmets, and 5 plump helmet spawns.  This is normally enough for me to get a farm started and a well built without risking starvation.

  If clean water won't be easy to get, I immediately set the farmer to collecting plants and set the leader to cutting trees while the miners start the excavation of the first storage area.

  I've never actually planted humanfoods though, I generally just set the ones I collect to brew only, then cook the seeds with plump helmets.  I'll buy every seed and plant from every caravan to brew with the foods and cook with the seeds.


(d then p) from main menu for selecting a plant harvesting area.

[CapnUrist]

Since no one has commented on it, that design for your spiral ramp has one of two flaws in it, depending on whether those > symbols are meant to be down-ramps or down-stairs.

• If those are ramps, you'll need a wall behind the ramp (that is, orthogonally opposite where the dwarves will walk up it from) to make it usable. Consider a 2x2 shaft, or a 3x3 with the ramps in the middle of each side (a double-helix is possible this way)
• If those are stairs, you'll need up-stairs as well, but otherwise it's workable.

Either way, it won't allow for a great deal of traffic.

[Farmerbob]

Are you making the spiral staircase for a reason, or is it just because you want to make a spiral staircase?

If you just want fast Dwarfy movement, I've run some pretty large and busy areas with quad staircases like so:

OOODDO
OXXXXO
ODDOOO

O = wall (I don't trust any ramp or staircase without as much support as possible 
D = Door, or Open space if you don't need/want doors
X = up/down stairs

I put two exit tiles on opposite corners of the staircase so dwarves have a choice to avoid traffic.  Typically I use these staircases to punch straight down through large work and storage areas, so haulers might have to go any direction from the stairway

[SurfinShroom]

I just embark with a proficient plant gatherer/grower, he spends the first 2 seasons gathering random plants while I brew/eat them, by then I have enough seeds to stop starvation at which point I irrigate an area underground for plumpies

[rephikul]

if you survived 2 seasons just from foraging then why would you bother with growing 

[Farmerbob]

if you survived 2 seasons just from foraging then why would you bother with growing 

It's a lot easier to support 7-50 dwarves on random spawns than 150, heh.

I have yet to build a fort that couldn't be 100% supported for both food and drink by a single 5x5 plot of plump helmets.  I normally have to let the plot lie fallow every other season after my farmer gets to legendary.

[MetalGear]

So, how about this design

# - wall, > - down ramp, < - up ramp . - open space, X - floor
Z:
#####
#<.....#
#X>...#
#####

Z - 1:
#####
#.....>#
#...<X#
#####

Z - 2:
#####
#.>X<#
#.......#
#####

Would those extra segments of floor make the ramps usable? I recall I had a similar ramp structure in a previous fort and I think it worked.

[Farmerbob]

I think you original idea was fine, though you would need flat landings whenever you wanted to change directions with the ramps, I think.  Never tried to make a spiral ramp staircase before - might fool with it tonight if I have time and verify how it works.

[Sutremaine]

It's not the floor that's important, it's the wall beneath the floor.

Code: [Select]

# - wall, > - down ramp, < - up ramp . - open space, X - floor
Z:
#####
#<..#
#X>.#
#####

Z - 1:
#####
#..>#
##<X#
#####

Z - 2:
#####
#>X<#
#..##
#####