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Author Topic: Interface Overhaul  (Read 3340 times)

ShunterAlhena

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Re: Interface Overhaul
« Reply #30 on: December 25, 2010, 05:11:22 am »

I'll argue that the interface does not seriously impact the number of DF players.

The target audience is us nerds, who CARE about which toe of a dwarf has been splashed with goblin vomit. And incidentally it's exactly this audience that doesn't mind learning a convoluted interface. My girlfriend may whine about the unintuitive interface, but even if it was made simple she wouldn't enjoy DF.

My point is that the interface is just a tiny part of DF's complexities: who is dedicated enough to enjoy DF, will be dedicated enough to learn the interface. And who is frightened by an interface that can be learnt in a few hours, will also be frightened by the complex systems behind it, and will shy away from DF anyway.

So I wholly agree with Toady's decision to add features/fix bugs. That's the right thing to do if he wants to preserve/expand the playerbase. An easy interface would just invite a horde of players trying and giving up DF in a day, without any donations or lasting support.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2010, 05:13:52 am by ShunterAlhena »
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dennislp3

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Re: Interface Overhaul
« Reply #31 on: December 25, 2010, 01:58:48 pm »

Considering the game is technically alpha...I dont see the problem...this game is currently in a "as is test it out and deal" stage (aka alpha).

There is soooo much to do and Toady, being the programmer that knows all the ins and outs of the program, is certainly most qualified to know what needs worked on I think. The creator and the users see things in completely different ways. We see "I want a finished product" he sees "I want to put x, y, and z in before I call it finished". Insert standard "eye of the beholder" clause here.
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Antioch

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Re: Interface Overhaul
« Reply #32 on: December 25, 2010, 05:03:52 pm »

I'll argue that the interface does not seriously impact the number of DF players.

The target audience is us nerds, who CARE about which toe of a dwarf has been splashed with goblin vomit. And incidentally it's exactly this audience that doesn't mind learning a convoluted interface. My girlfriend may whine about the unintuitive interface, but even if it was made simple she wouldn't enjoy DF.

My point is that the interface is just a tiny part of DF's complexities: who is dedicated enough to enjoy DF, will be dedicated enough to learn the interface. And who is frightened by an interface that can be learnt in a few hours, will also be frightened by the complex systems behind it, and will shy away from DF anyway.

So I wholly agree with Toady's decision to add features/fix bugs. That's the right thing to do if he wants to preserve/expand the playerbase. An easy interface would just invite a horde of players trying and giving up DF in a day, without any donations or lasting support.


I certainly disagree, the interface (and graphics) is the ONLY thing keeping from more people playing DF, because believe it or not, after learning the basics of designating and building, the game really isn't that hard to play (you can choose how hard it is yourself) surely the underlying mechanics are complex, but most things don't directly influence the way you play the game. Fore example wounds are extremely detailed, and though it is incredibly fun to say what broken bones and burns my dwarfs have :P it barely influences the way you handle combat, and it certainly doesn't make the game harder.
 The game certainly isn't too hard to play for for half the gaming community if the layout wasn't so incomprehensible.

Considering the game is technically alpha...I dont see the problem...this game is currently in a "as is test it out and deal" stage (aka alpha).

There is soooo much to do and Toady, being the programmer that knows all the ins and outs of the program, is certainly most qualified to know what needs worked on I think. The creator and the users see things in completely different ways. We see "I want a finished product" he sees "I want to put x, y, and z in before I call it finished". Insert standard "eye of the beholder" clause here.

The game is already in alpha for 5 years, improving the layout is something that brings to game to a much more finished stat then adding additional features like wool and eggs. It seems in the suggestion polls that interface and graphics are of mid priority for most of the forum occupants, but this gives a flawed image, as the thousands of people waiting for graphics and interface currently ARE NOT playing the game.

compare:
1. yay! wool and eggs are added now I have the option to add 1 production line to my fortress!
with:
2. Yay! graphic and interface finally updated, now I can finally play the game without memorizing the matrix!
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SalmonGod

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Re: Interface Overhaul
« Reply #33 on: December 25, 2010, 05:15:13 pm »

unify combat logs

string searches for every large menu list

I would be happy.  There are plenty of other things that could use work, but these are the only ones that give me major grief.  And I still wonder if I'm missing something when it comes to the combat logs, because I'm the only one I've ever seen complain about it.
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Maybe people should love for the sake of loving, and not with all of these optimization conditions.

Rainseeker

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Re: Interface Overhaul
« Reply #34 on: December 25, 2010, 08:02:54 pm »

Yes.  This topic has been discussed before.  And yes, as my friend and colleague Capntastic pointed out, Toady knows it's a problem.

Okay, guys.  What are we going to do about this?  I would suggest that someone who knows Lua (or some other similar language) really, really well contact Toady and volunteer some time.  One thing that moves the Toadmister more than anything is a competent person willing to volunteer!  The good Capn and I can attest to that.  Anyone out there know how to make a great UI?

So, in summary, if you want a better game, money is good, but volunteering is better!

What have you done today to make Dwarf Fortress more fun?
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