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[Criptfeind]

I'm glad a couple people brought up socializing, even though it took three pages, because it's what I was going to say.

Really? It did? Crap man, that was my first thought.

[Sir Pseudonymous]

Hmmm... apparently Sir Pseudonymous is so intelligent he can look down on everyone else as "coked up goldfishes".  Hmm.

You missed that that was a setup for the crack about executives and their cocaine problems.

[Korbac]

crack about executives and their cocaine

Groan.

[Eagleon]

To me, the problem has always been that parents see their kids as blank unreactive slates they can imprint their knowledge and beliefs upon. It doesn't work that way. Giving stale anecdotes and rehearsed logic does nothing for a thinking mind - the better course is to guide them towards reaching their own conclusions. Even if you don't agree with them, even if they've made a mistake somewhere, they must be trained to value thought and activity itself.

It's the shepherd mentality, where submission to authority without thought is seen as a virtue instead of a critical weakness - if you're right about things, you're opening up vast holes in your kid's defense against unreason. If you're wrong, you've weakened their ability to escape your own mistakes. Either way, you've done them a disservice by pushing them towards complacency.

[blackmagechill]

What is the purpose of "childhood"? Looking at any other animal, "play" and "fun" is mostly training for and practicing things they'll have to do when they're adults, fighting and hunting and such. Modern times with humans, "fun" and "play" usually has almost nothing to do with adult life. I'm thinking of back in the day when social economic output wasn't high enough to sustain a large unemployed population. Early industrialization and prior when children were miniature adults training to be adults. Would I rather have a "childhood" under heavy responsibility as an apprentice for a dangerous job? No, living conditions were horrible, but it would have done a whole lot more for me. Sure there's "imaginative" play, building motor and coordination, honing social skills, and a bunch of other essential skills every human needs to function, but children aren't really "trained" for any significantly useful jobs anymore and the modern generations are being raised on fantasy worlds and trained to live in Skinner's boxes. At best, some become moderately proficient in useful technical computer skills, but uncomfortable truth: Some people really do completely piss away their lives and it's even easier than ever and it's practically encouraged.

I wish I could go back in a time machine, slap those stupid games and toys out of my hand and give myself some textbooks, certificates of deposit, and something skill based like a musical instrument or programming books or art supplies or anything really. It's only now I realize what a stupid stupid waste of time my childhood was with my stupid toys. Thank god for (mostly) mandatory education, else I'd probably an entirely useless individual.

We need mandatory apprenticeship starting at or just before kindergarten to make up for the completely worthless and mind-rotting modern forms of entertainment. I like the modern standard of living, but now I can really really appreciate the usefulness and future preparation that was old-world "childhood", before the childhood stage was idolized into the whole "protect the children from the horrors of adulthood" thing.

/rant

Hey, if people piss away their lives, that is their problem. Not everyone has talent, or wants to even if they do. Some people would rather sit down, shut the hell up, and do nothing then realized that it's sit down and shut the fuck up and call someone on it.(Which is to say, some people would rather go with the status quo than change something that's wrong. I use metaphors.). And about pissing away childhood- just because a lot of people are doing it, doesn't mean everyone is. I take standardized tests and cram for them. I try for my advanced math classes, and only do stuff after I'm done in my other classes. And for play, which you could consider for me is this forum dwarf fortress and a whole bunch of shit eating my download limits, is math and social skills. Believe it or not, I am pretty young. As in only legally able to join this site last year young. I started using the internet about two years before it, posting on boards about games or something, learning a lot about my personality, likes and dislikes, and basic human social conduct (which some kids don't grasp until high-school, so I feel like I accomplished something by learning norms before most.). This has helped me be a pretty productive person for my grade level area, getting into he gifted program and all those minuscule achievements. As for dwarf Fortress, I learn math better, and think about things differently. We all usually do. Video games are mostly for entertainment, but hey, as sentient creatures at the highest point on the food chain, that's our entitlement for making it this far to be smarter and better than other species around us (getting back to your animals play by practicing things, as if we probably didn't when we first started evolving in to the state we are now). As for the unemployed population bit, I feel that that is a problem and being the halfway, half-wit moderate I am, I think we should cut away from welfares and things like that to either build up an actual healthcare system (U.S) or cut some of the money out of it until welfare pays less than minimum wage, making it a miserable living, and move the extras cut off to education. So yes, childhood can be a waste, and most likely is, but it is better to have ignorance and find out later (secondary school) that it's actually a big deal and get shit in gear.