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[Samoorai]

K, this should work, but it doesn't.

W = Wall
w = water wheel
~ = water
+ = floor
R = ramp (up and down)
G = gear assembly
- = e/w horizontal axle
| = n/s horizontal axle
Bottom level:

Code: [Select]

WWWWWWWWWWWWW
W~~~W~~~W~~~W
W~W~W~W~W~W~W
W~W~W~W~W~W~W
W~W~W~W~W~W~W
W~W~W~W~W~W~W
W~W~W~W~W~W~W
W~W~W~W~W~W~W
W~W~W~W~W~W~W
W~W~W~W~W~W~W
W~W~~~W~~~W~W
W~WWWWWWWWW~W
W~~~~~~RWW~~W
WWWWWWWWWWWWWTop level:

Code: [Select]

WWWW|WWWWWWWW
Wwww|www+wwwW
Ww|w|w|w+w|wW
WwGwGwGw-wGwW
Ww+w|w+w+w+wW
Ww+w|w+w+w+wW
Ww-wGw-w-w-wW
Ww+w|w+w+w+wW
Ww+w|w+w+w+wW
WwGwGw-wGw-wW
Ww|w|w+w|w+wW
W~|+GG++|WWWW
WwwwwwwRPP~~W
WWWWWWWWWWWWW
This only seems to generate 200 power at most (not enough to self sustain), where it should generate 2300. The waterway's only about 5 units of water from being totally full. What's wrong?

[morgoththegreat]

For non-naturally-flowing (not in a brook/river) water to power your wheels the water level has to change underneath the wheels. Your pump is keeping all but the last couple tiles filled to 7/7, so the water level never changes, and the wheels don't turn. The reason it you're getting any power at all is because the last couple tiles, right before the pump inlet, are constantly being drained down by the pump and so the water level in them isn't being pressure-pathed by the pump but are instead acting as "water spreading out," which is what actually produces power in (non-natural-flow) water wheels.

Unfortunately, assuming I'm actually correct about what is going on here, I don't think there's much you can do to fix it. If somebody had managed to do it like this already it would probably be on the wiki, which is where you should go if you want a proven and practical infinite power system. If you're just having a good time trying to design your own (I think it's fun), by all means continue.

[blainemono]

As far as I can tell, any power-generating system is capped at 200 power. Bit of a disappointment, that

[schussel]

how you mean capped? sorry thats bull .. most likely the starting energy is to low and needs manual labor to start off

i made perpetual reactors worth of several thousand  powerunits ... but i found out that the larger the basin of water is the sooner you gonna have to start the engine by hand

made a 16 fold water reactor (http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Water_wheel) lately by sticking them next to each other in 2 rows and connecting both rows  by axle .. because of the giant reservoir below the construction this machinery wouldnt get going by just flooding the reservoir .. cause the first 2 wheels get going doing their 100 power but not reaching the needed 1k+ power to start the whole complex .. (many other mills and pumps hanging on that complex ) until i let a dwarf start one pump which started the whole mess

to rebuild a small reactor and keep a gear  on a lever between it and the megareactor may help to start the thingy if you dont want to risk dwarfes^^
(in my jumpstart the poor dwarf was flushed across the room .. luckily for him next to a rescue ramp i build there)

i hope i didnt misunderstand the issue here

[Kanddak]

Perpetual motion is dark magic and nobody really understands it. There are designs that work and designs that don't but no good theory for exactly what distinguishes the two.
"Water has to be below 7/7" is a common urban legend. I hadn't heard "it's capped at 200 power" before but it's not true either.
Whether or not water is considered to be flowing for waterwheel purposes does seem to have some weird tangential connection to whether pressure pathfinding has gone through it.

[aepurniet]

teleporting (due to pressure) water does not generate flow.  i usually separate all my water wheels with separate water pools.  that way each wheel gets the full flow. i noticed that if i tried to double up (or more), that flow would not be generated evenly across the wheels. one wheel would be active, but the others would only occasionally get flow.

just make standard units of one pump and one wheel, and then link multiple those with axles. its surefire and never lets me down.

[schussel]

if you center the water basin with a flowin of water usually not too lare complexes jumpstart as soon as water depth goes to 6  at the first wheel setting of the rest ... manual start is just necessary with over 500  power needed aprox. ... taken from my observations

[Olith McHuman]

I've done some perpetual motion machine experiments before, but I just can't get anything other than the basic dwarven water reactor to work reliably. It's really easy to make water teleport, and really hard to force it to flow.
I've noticed that with reservoirs that I drain off map, ALL of the water in it starts flowing as soon as the water starts draining and never stops flowing. Try building water wheels above something like that?

Code: [Select]

WWWWWWWWWW<-- edge of map
W~~~~~~~WW
W~~~~~~~DF
W~~~~~~~WW
WWWWWWWWWW


[Brandon816]

Maybe make smaller reactors? The long path of water probably isn't helping you much. Smaller cycle and size reactors are just as easy to make and even have more control.

As for this design, maybe you should diagnose it. Disassemble some of the water wheels (or maybe just the connected axles) until you find the ones which are actually turning. That would help you figure out what the problem is.

My guess as to what is wrong, look at the status of the individual wheels to see if they are moving. Maybe, the power train isn't connected properly. I had that happen to me once. It was separated into two power grids even though they were connected right.

[schussel]

i don t get the problem here .. ok maybe your complex is not accessable ..

i normally tap rivers or brooks and leave the connection open and the reactor no matter how large it is works ..

 just have the farthest pump from the water entrance started by hand (in case the basic energy need exceeds the output of the first generators at the entranc e.. around 400-800 ) and the whole complex should start and work it out ... after all those generators are just fire and forget designs no matter where .. if it doesnt work you got a constructing error 

since on standard water reactors pumps work really fast theres allways a current for all waterwheels to work ..

its just about the start impulse ...
 but when all reactor pumps are connected starting one is enough to do the work  .. no matter what the basin is like (its even working on a full 7/7 reservoir) .. it will just get splashi after all

if you are the type to wall in the pumps its no big deal either .... besides its annoying to build depending on layout .. just let a path to one pump and close it after jumpstart

@olith : you quite do it the hardest way even if there are far easier ways to accomplish^^

@op: just insert a few more  pumps allover the room and it will work .. every 3-4 squaretiles would suffice .. jumpstart one and it should work(gotta find the critical number of pumps necessary though .. think of 7 tiles of water per second for each pump and you will need to drain one layer of the water (means to get every tile to 6/7 ... just add the numbers) .. oc course this is just bogus math ..  only meant as a direction^^

[Samoorai]

Room was already built. I've now scrapped it and am now going with a (to be) chained Dwarven Water Reactor, as specified on the wiki.

Sigh. Who would have guess the law-breaking physics broke their own laws? Career criminals I guess.

[Burning_Iceman]

I guess this has to do with the generally weird behaviour of water. Rather than actually flowing according to some kind of gradient it just moves about randomly. This obviously cause flow in general to be very slow.

[WrathNail]

Do tell, why do you need 2300 Urist of power? A 200+ pumpstack?

[schussel]

its nice to have lots of power i think

my record went up to 10k (2k alone for the reactor itself)

i had to abandon due to evil  monster invasion but the plan was to make a pumpstack of lava for every row on the map (about 5 zlevel from the magma source and about 60 tiles across