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Author Topic: Weapon Materials  (Read 3692 times)

bcd1024

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Weapon Materials
« on: September 24, 2010, 03:46:14 am »

What metal should I use for bolts. From my understanding, even iron bolts can penetrate steel armor. Are they best?

What about war hammers? I read that silver war hammers are best, whereas steel is best for swords. Adamantine is not an option.

And a side question while I have you, magma is typically in the third cavern, right?

I remember reading about which metals were best for what weapons on the wiki prior to the downtime, but I can't seem to find that article anymore.
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This is a feature, not a bug, correct?
You're playing Dwarf Fortress.  There isn't much of a distinction.

JAFANZ

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Re: Weapon Materials
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2010, 03:52:42 am »

I believe Bronze & Silver(?) are considered optimal for Bolts, don't use Blue-metal.

http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Weapon
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Hans Lemurson

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Re: Weapon Materials
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2010, 04:05:23 am »

Make bolts out of the cheapest materials you have, and in large amounts.  So long as they're metal, they'll probably pierce armor, unless something drastic has changed with weapon/armor relations since 31.12.  You're mainly only going to be using marksdwarves in situations where they can take free pot-shots at their target, and even if it takes more shots to kill, that's just more experience for them.  Ammunition should be cheap and plentiful.

War hammers aren't really your best choice of weapon since they take so long to deliver a killing blow (bashing the skull in isn't lethal unless you actually tear the brain as well).  I have heard the same about silver being the best due to its highest density, and for the coolness of naming your dwarf "Maxwell Silver-Hammer".

Bad news: unless you find a magma-pipe, magma only appears BELOW the 3rd cavern.  Keep digging!!!

Steel is the best metal for weapons and armor where sharpness and durability counts.  Next comes bronze.  Then iron, and then copper and silver.  The softness of the various metals has an interesting correlation with their density.

You only REALLY need weapons that are of a superior material to the armor that your enemies are wearing.  Bronze weapons will pierce iron armor, but be stopped by Bronze and Steel armor.  If Steel is proving too expensive and difficult to manufacture on a large scale (without magma available, that's a LOT of coal!), then just equip your dwarves with Bronze armor and reserve Steel for their weapons.
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Foolprooof way to penetrate aquifers of unlimited depth.  (Make sure to import at least 10 stones for mechanisms)
Toughen Dwarves by dropping stuff on them.  (Nothing too heavy though, and make sure to wear armor.)
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whose feet tracked blighted soot.
And into every face he saw
his sooty foot he put."

bcd1024

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Re: Weapon Materials
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2010, 04:21:30 am »

My melee squads are mostly hammerdwarves. I read on http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Weapon that silver hammer equipped dwarves are deadliest to other humanoids; since goblins are my main worry I use hammers. Is this no longer the case? I did notice they kill very slowly.

I have a Talented weaponsmith and he makes steel weapons and iron bolts non-stop so far. Sadly I'm lacking an armorsmith. I did embark on a heavily wooded map solely for the charcoal. I have 2 Legendary wood cutters, a legendary wood burner, and not enough haulers, but over 500 fuel.

All my recent fortresses failed because I end up with 4+ mounted goblin squads outside and no way to defeat them (lag). I'm considering digging down, sealing any cavern entrances I find until I hit magma, pumping that up, and using it to flood the map when needed.
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This is a feature, not a bug, correct?
You're playing Dwarf Fortress.  There isn't much of a distinction.

Hans Lemurson

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Re: Weapon Materials
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2010, 04:36:11 am »

Fuel-wise, Bronze is the cheapest weapon-metal since you can smelt 2 units of it from ore for only one fuel.  It takes 4 units of fuel to make an item out of steel, and only 1.5 to make one out of bronze.

Since you have 500 charcoal, you're probably fine, though.  Magma makes metal an extremely cheap material to obtain since it removes the need for fuel, and can be used to simultaneously kill enemies and dispose of the trash they generate.

Hammers are best for incapacitating enemies and for relatively bloodless killing, if such messes offend you.

I have come to the conclusion that lag is largely due to the amount of "stuff" you have lying around, so finding ways to dispose of useless items would be key to recovering FPS, if such a thing is indeed possible and not simply the stuff of myths.
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Foolprooof way to penetrate aquifers of unlimited depth.  (Make sure to import at least 10 stones for mechanisms)
Toughen Dwarves by dropping stuff on them.  (Nothing too heavy though, and make sure to wear armor.)
Quote
"Urist had a little lamb
whose feet tracked blighted soot.
And into every face he saw
his sooty foot he put."

Alastar

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Re: Weapon Materials
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2010, 05:54:57 pm »

For blunt weapons, toughness seems to matter against flesh, but the better the armour it has to punch through the more important density becomes. Silver hammers would be good can openers, bronze or steel maces good general purpose weapons.

For bolts, I'd just go with copper. Silver may have a slight edge against naked flesh, bronze against goblin-level armour... but all three are good and lighter metals seem to do worse even if they are stronger.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2010, 06:00:19 pm by Alastar »
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Darkmere

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Re: Weapon Materials
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2010, 06:20:07 pm »

I prefer a mix if I don't know what I'm going up against. Axes and swords vs smaller targets and undead tend to remove limbs at an alarming rate for quick incapacitation. Spears and bolts for penetration of large organic targets punch right to the organs, helping to exhaust and bleed out targets. Blunt force is handy for armor piercing and gets things on the ground fast, but you'll need one of the other three types to actually put a target down.

Wrestlers are only good for funny factor as far as I can tell. I imagine a stocky dwarf with a bushy handlebar mustache and a leopard print leotard running into the field trying to tie goblins into pretzels. Then Urist McFinneas gets stabbed. Hope you made coffins.
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And then, they will be weaponized. Like everything in this game, from kittens to babies, everything is a potential device of murder.
So if baseless speculation is all we have, we might as well treat it like fact.

vassock

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Re: Weapon Materials
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2010, 07:52:34 pm »

Heavy warhammers pretty much always ignore armor. However, they take forever to kill an opponent. Incapacitation is another matter and opponents hit by warhammers a few times (maybe even once) will become unable or almost unable to attack. Against an armored target, it is better to use a warhammer if you can't bring a sharper metal to the battlefield. For example, if your enemy is in bronze and your best metal is bronze or iron, slashing weapons will not do anything. A hammer will go right through it, but will take a very long time to finish off the enemy. If you have steel, you'll cut through it more than likely and sever limbs and heads in a few attacks. And if the enemy is unarmored and made of flesh, then the battleaxe or shortsword is your weapon of choice.
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