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[Vercingetorix]

Instead of a floor, you can build an upwards stairway. Your dwarves will still be able to use it from above, and it won't let anything in from below.

I never thought of that.  Good idea.

[omglazers]

I refer you to this thread: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=59894.0

OK, it's more than a little cheaty, but it will get you magma... On every map I've played there's been enough lignite and Bit.coal I didn't feel like I needed magma to have a serious metal working industry, though.

I actually usually have cave-ins turned off due to the stupid nature of dwarves. Although, for shits and giggles, I think I will try to build a magma piston

[Avaline]

Considering it a nice minimegaproject.  It's fun (and sometimes Fun) to try to get it to work and epic when it does work.  Besides, you don't use up magma when you use it in a workshop, so once you have at least 4/7 of it, you don't need any more. 

I did it once, though it took a few times to work it right.  This new time, though, I'm just saying "BLAH" and building the metal industry near the magma: the dwarves can walk. 

To avoid getting attacked by magma creatures, don't use the magma sea directly.  Instead, make a pump with metal pipes/corkscrews, and pump a batch of it into an area.  Then you can just put the workshops above that area.  Once done, Floor up the open area.  There you go, monster free magma.

[Dorf3000]

I gen worlds with really low passage density to get that wide-open-space look in the caverns, it also makes the total height a lot lower (140 levels? my laptop would set on fire.)

Pump stacks don't take all that long to build, if you have more than 20 dwarves.  The biggest wait is the architect for the pumps (he hauls all the parts down himself if you don't do something silly like custom stockpiles on every level), and possibly finding a straight route down through the caverns.  Mining it out is really quick and you can have several dwarves forging the corkscrews and pipes using regular forges, while the mechanics/carpenters are building the power source.

[Levi]

I'm starting to get lazy with magma because I also hate pumping it up.

What I do is just keep digging down until I get to some magma, then build all my forges next to the magma pool and make it a burrow  dedicated to the metal industry.

[csebal]

Do you really need magma that early? I mean.. do get magma, you have to dig pretty deep now, usually resulting in going through at least one if not more cavern layers, depending on how many you hit. I would not risk that, without having a decent military up first.

Other than that, the best option imo would be to dig a few exploratory tunnels deep down to find out where the magma is, then build a tunnel system that avoids any caverns and build the magma industry right next to the magma source. Sure it will be a long walk for the workers, but it should be more or less safe and it is definitely the fastest way to tap into the magma. Just do not forget to wall / floor off your exploration shafts as someone else also mentioned. Potentially an even easier way is to dig straight down to the magma and wall around the stairs whenever it crosses a cave, basically building a sealed stairway all the way down to the magma. It might be a little riskier than going around the caves, as you will be vulnerable during constructing the walls, but walls are built pretty quickly, so as long as you pay attention, i do not think there should be any problems.

Personally, i do not feel the need to get magma early, but this might be related to me choosing starting locations that have sedimentary layers, mostly for the flux and the abundance of iron ores, but it is also packed full of coke bearing ores, like lignite or bituminous coal. Also since it is the topmost layer, i can usually get these ores right from the start meaning that i can have my steel equipped militia ready before fall of the first year.

Standard metal industry setup for me: 6 smelters, 2 forges, 8-9 dwarves assigned to metalworking, 4 of them specialists only having one metalcrafting job enabled besides furnace operating, and the rest are dedicated furnace operators. It is the second thing i get up and running after the farms.

[Flaede]

I have found that if you uave a 4x4 or 2x2 worldtile size fortress, then the dead center of the map is almost always cavern free. If you build a staircase straight down underneath the center of your wagon, you often end up at the magma sea without encountering the caverns. Then you can build your fort down there, only moving up to the topside for Trading, if that's your thing.

[Zaik]

You can dig down to it easily enough, mine have generally been around mid 30s, however Magma Men are totally able to walk through wall grates(and i assume fortifications as well) and destroy buildings, so you've got to pump it away and make it totally inaccessible somehow or another, as far as I can tell.

[Flaede]

naw. Just use the solid part of your magma buildings to cover the holes in the floor that lead to the magma. Then magma men and whatnot can't come out of said floorhole.

[Rowantwig]

naw. Just use the solid part of your magma buildings to cover the holes in the floor that lead to the magma. Then magma men and whatnot can't come out of said floorhole.

What about building destroyers, though? Can they destroy upwards? Never actually seen any in the magma sea, but I try to avoid having weak points in my defenses, even if they're just theoretical.

[Flaede]

What about building destroyers, though? Can they destroy upwards? Never actually seen any in the magma sea, but I try to avoid having weak points in my defenses, even if they're just theoretical.

I have been told they can't. (Really should resurrect the old MythBuster threads, but I can never get forts to the point where I could test any of the myths)

It used to be the safest way was Fortifications, but those don't protect against flyers/swimmers, and wall grates can be smashed. Now as far as I know, the only safe method is blocking from above (this is important for well creation also - floor grates a few z levels below the natural water line would keep the swimming FBs out!)

[Emily]

Building destroyers cannot destroy constructions (walls, floors, stairs, ramps), as far as I know.  So whether they can destroy upwards is not often an issue.  Also, I was under the impression that the effect that pushed creatures through fortifications on occasion was related to flows; once the forge area is completely filled to 7 on every square there shouldn't be a risk of that...

And as far as avoiding caves, each square on the embark map tends to have rock pillars in the corners.  So if you count out a corner (or if you use a 2x2 or 4x4, as mentioned before), and dig a shaft straight down, you have a decent chance of missing caves.  Then you can set up your forges at the magma sea.  Would also recommend digging a seperate area under where you want the forges, so there's only a narrow connection to the main magma sea, then using an artificial pond to pour water onto the opening into the main magma sea, which will seal the forges off from it with obsidian.

Also, if you feel like being cheap, another way to avoid caverns is to us DFHack.  But that is probably going to count as cheating for some people.

[Flaede]

Building destroyers cannot destroy constructions (walls, floors, stairs, ramps), as far as I know.  So whether they can destroy upwards is not often an issue.  Also, I was under the impression that the effect that pushed creatures through fortifications on occasion was related to flows; once the forge area is completely filled to 7 on every square there shouldn't be a risk of that...

It is NOT (entirely) related to flows. Once submerged, they can float right through fortifications at will. I had this happen with a 2-z-level submerged fortification a full season after it was made, and I hear that it is the same for fliers with above water/magma fortifications. I think the glitch with flows is still in full effect for grates, however. your dwarves can still be sucked down the drain .

using an artificial pond to pour water onto the opening into the main magma sea, which will seal the forges off from it with obsidian.

This is just awesome. The only way to be really sure...

[Emily]

using an artificial pond to pour water onto the opening into the main magma sea, which will seal the forges off from it with obsidian.

This is just awesome. The only way to be really sure...

Yep, though it seems you can't just designate a pond over a hole through which you can see the magma; it seems that in that case the water boils into steam before it ever actually spawns the fluid, so no obsidian.  I think just channeling out the space up and over one tile from it, and designating that as a pond would probably work though.  (the first bucket poured would create a puddle, the second then flows over and down into the pit and creates obsidian.)  If that doesn't work, more complex set-ups definitely would.