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[JT]

All of the games in the roguelike genre have any varying number of flaws, and if you don't actually like the genre itself (how many people on the Dwarf Fortress forums prefer Adventure Mode? *raises his hand*), you're going to be particularly harsh on one or more of the games in the genre, even if you like one of the other games in the genre.

For instance, let me put on a critic hat.

Nethack is a kitbash, where someone decided to include everything, even the kitchen sink, and expected it to work together.  It didn't.  It's like a neutron star that collapsed under its own weight.

IVAN is like a bastard stepchild of a roguelike.  Sure it's funny, and the graphics are cute, and getting your head smashed in is all matter of fun, but when you realise that there are only two actual quests in the game and that it has a massive achievement spiral, you realise it's nothing great.

Dwarf Fortress Adventure Mode is just plain unfinished.  Critical features like healing and obtaining ammunition are nowhere in sight or simply simulated with a hack.  There's no balance, and since Fortress Mode is majorly winning the development time due to the fact that strategy gamers outnumber adventure/roleplaying gamers, it's probably not coming any time in the foreseeable future.  Bet on the other horse.

ADOM is a serious treatment of a roguelike and is about as easy to figure out as a woman.  For some inexplicable reason, players are driven towards the end goal with a ticking timebomb that they don't even know about until they wind up dying because of it.  Gameplay usually amounts to wading through hordes of monsters until your HP declines far enough that you turn around and run -- careful management of items, resources, potions, and scrolls is rarely an issue.  Yippee.

JADE is vapourware.  If it actually had something to show other than three-year-old screenshots, I would almost assuredly be able to pick those apart and say various insulting things about them.  Sadly, all I can do is give a voucher for a free negative critique.

Having said all of those things, it might surprise you to learn that I like all of the above except Nethack, which I simply tolerate.  The point being, it's easy to point out flaws in other games, but you should turn your critical eye to your own game before you try railing on others.

[DDouble]

I think you may really enjoy Troubles of Middle Earth, or TOME. Formerly PernAngband, it has been the game I play the most when I graduated from MacMoria etc.
www.t-o-m-e.net

I've never run into a bug in it, so that's one bonus. The other good qualities include a huge world with many separate dungeons, each with their own style and challenges (a sand-dungeon in the desert with a "chutes and ladders" mechanic via quicksand, a tall tower, a deep forest, many different themes).

It has a cohesive design, unlike Nethack which always struck me as ludicrous (classes such as Amazon or Tourist or Archeologist turned me off from it). In TOME, even within a certain race and class, there is a lot of room for customizing the growth of a character, something further enhanced by the religious worship ability, which is optional but really adds a lot to clerics, necromancers, etc.

[puke]

edit:  whooops.  drunken ramblings were here.

[ May 23, 2007: Message edited by: puke ]

[Heliopios]

quote:
It has a cohesive design, unlike Nethack which always struck me as ludicrous (classes such as Amazon or Tourist or Archeologist turned me off from it).

The archeologist is just a gimmick character, if you notice, there's a subtle resemblance of Indiana Jones, with the hat, and the whip.

And who DOESNT want to take out monsters with a camera, as a tourist?

[xarph]

quote:Originally posted by Guy:
<STRONG>

Agree'd.  I'm going to buy one of the new Macs soon, and a native Dwarf Fortress would be nice.*

* iDwarf anyone?</STRONG>

DF works fine under CrossOver Mac 6. CrossOver isn't free, though it is cheaper than a Windows license for Parallels or Boot Camp - you DO want to remain legal, right?

I imagine it will work under Darwine once someone gets OpenGL working.

[ May 23, 2007: Message edited by: xarph ]

[JT]

quote:Originally posted by Heliopios:
<STRONG>And who DOESNT want to take out monsters with a camera, as a tourist?</STRONG>

"Hey mouse... say cheese."
[a beat]
"With a dry, cool wit like that, I could be an action hero!"

[subject name here]

Freud once said something about people and video game flamewars, I forgot what it was but I'm sure it had something to do with incest and feces.

[ricemastah]

Didn't Freud almost always say something about either incest or feces?

[Wang Commander]

quote:Originally posted by Heliopios:
<STRONG>

The archeologist is just a gimmick character, if you notice, there's a subtle resemblance of Indiana Jones, with the hat, and the whip.

And who DOESNT want to take out monsters with a camera, as a tourist?</STRONG>

Of all the people who might have a legitimate reason and skillset for descending deep into the earth on vague instructions to retrieve an artifact, isn't a 1930s-style archaeologist a pretty good choice?

[Heliopios]

quote:Originally posted by Wang Commander:
<STRONG>

Of all the people who might have a legitimate reason and skillset for descending deep into the earth on vague instructions to retrieve an artifact, isn't a 1930s-style archaeologist a pretty good choice?</STRONG>

Why yes, yes it is.