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[Sunken]

Indeed, the fact that dwarves cannot trip their own traps unless they are unconscious or stunned, the general ease with which traps can be constructed, the lack of maintainance or any other drawback to creating large numbers of traps all guarantee that essentially every player who doesn't avoid using traps out of a desire to increase the challenge will simply carpet his entryway in stonefall traps.

Really, the only solution is for goblins to send in "10-foot polemen" to walk in front of the seiges, triggering all the traps they can.

Well, some of those issues are going to be dealt with if we are correctly informed. But they're just quantitative adjustments, really. More effort to cover your fortress in traps; outcome the same as before. What's needed is a qualitative gimping, and I suggested what I did because it seems to me that that's the reason why traps haven't been used so much in real life - they're stupid and can't tell friend from foe, nor outsmart anyone who knows they're there.

So polemen aren't the only solution, though it's a valid addition to sieges expecting lots of traps.

[Hyndis]

Making traps dumb such that they will trigger on anything that enters into that square is also problematic.

What happens when Urist McHauler goes to clean the weapon trap because a goblin corpse got stuck in the trap? In order to clean it he will need to stand on the trap. So he cleans it. Then the trap kills him and now his corpse is stuck in the trap, so now the trap needs cleaning again and the goblin corpse needs to be hauled away, so that would be two more dwarves heading to stand on that trap tile.

[Hyndis]

The best solution might be to have a certain percentage of the attacking army be able to disarm traps. If a trap is discovered they consider that tile to be impassible while the trap is active. This means that a regular goblin with a spear will just sit there and not move forward. However the trap disarming goblin is not effected by this pathing restriction and so keeps moving forward. He reaches the trap, "works" at the trap briefly with work time depending on creature speed and agility, and disarms/jams the trap. The trap will now never work ever again unless it is cleaned by a dwarf. Now that the trap is deactivated the spear goblin can move forward.

So on and so forth.

Upside to this is that goblins will no longer blindly wander into a meatgrinder.

Downside is that the sappers will move ahead of the main force, and thus be easy prey to crossbows. Perhaps this is at it should be, but then by killing all of the sappers the main force can no longer advance, and so will just sit there until the siege times out. Sieges can last for a good portion of a year.

[loose nut]

I like the idea of traps affecting everyone who enters the tile, and setting active and inactive states with a lever.

I would at least think that armed traps would require a bit of extra time for the dwarves to transverse. Another possibility: one dwarf gets delegated to guide duty, and guides the caravan - slowly - through the trap barrier.

[Lord Darkstar]

Come come! It is obvious that Dwarven traps, being made from DWARVEN MECHANISMS, are magic. The mechanism when it is put into place is charmed by the dwarven mechanic so that it will never strike anyone or anyTHING that is friendly to the owner of the fortress. When magic is finally added, Toady can give the sub-division of mechanics that install the traps the dwarven guardian spell "Know friend" and the dwarf would then install the trap (now it's dangerous to all, with trap installers/mechanics having reduced risk of setting it off), the enchanter skill is used to enchant the trap, and finally it is the familar "Friend or foe" discerning trap we know. This way, only civs with access to the enchantment "Know friend" can have such discerning traps in their sites. Without that enchantment, it is a simple device that goes off on whatever meets its size requirements--- so if you set it to go off on big things like trolls, it will also kill any passing horse or cow. A second enchantment would be possible as well--- "Reset", allowing the enchanting mechanic to have the trap magically reset itself over some time period, so normal NON-ENCHANTED traps don't reset witout further reseting mechanisms. There, now we have more dwarven technology and magic working together to give us very intelligent traps. If you don't have a trap enchanter, you are stuck to the basics until you do, and be careful you don't get yourself.

Seriously--- they have to be magic. After all, let's not forget that dwarves animals, like their dogs and cats pass over those traps without them going off. Wouldn't you have to train them or set the trap to not kill them? And surely those big dogs weigh in as much as a kobald thief, at least! And that isn't even addressing things like their pet horses and cows and donkeys and mules. That's animals much bigger and clumsier than dwarves OR goblins or kobolds. And if you start taming the local wildlife, you can have pet elephants and hippotomasus... and THEY don't set off your traps! But a beserking merchant's donkey or two-humped camel does? That's just pure magic.

If a trap enchanter had to take a trap mechanism into a mechanics workshop to enchant it to for "friend or foe" behavior, that would be understandable, wouldn't it? It then becomes another task involved in making a dwarven trap--- "Enchant mechanism". No big deal, that seems like it would fit with these Toady style dwarves to me.

[Pilsu]

Traps could simply have a size limit like pressure plates do for determining what triggers them. Solves the problem with dogs and cats walking into them nicely. Cows shouldn't be pets in the first place. This also serves as a way to balance traps. After all, losing any large wayward animals that wander into the armed trap corridor is a major drawback to using them and keeping them armed all the time.

[Sunken]

Making traps dumb such that they will trigger on anything that enters into that square is also problematic.

What happens when Urist McHauler goes to clean the weapon trap because a goblin corpse got stuck in the trap? In order to clean it he will need to stand on the trap. So he cleans it. Then the trap kills him and now his corpse is stuck in the trap, so now the trap needs cleaning again and the goblin corpse needs to be hauled away, so that would be two more dwarves heading to stand on that trap tile.

They wouldn't go to clean the trap if it was an nonavoidable type, because they wouldn't path onto the tile. You'd have to deactivate the trap first to clean it. Makes sense to me.

[iron_general]

The best solution might be to have a certain percentage of the attacking army be able to disarm traps. If a trap is discovered they consider that tile to be impassible while the trap is active. This means that a regular goblin with a spear will just sit there and not move forward. However the trap disarming goblin is not effected by this pathing restriction and so keeps moving forward. He reaches the trap, "works" at the trap briefly with work time depending on creature speed and agility, and disarms/jams the trap. The trap will now never work ever again unless it is cleaned by a dwarf. Now that the trap is deactivated the spear goblin can move forward.

So on and so forth.

Upside to this is that goblins will no longer blindly wander into a meatgrinder.

Downside is that the sappers will move ahead of the main force, and thus be easy prey to crossbows. Perhaps this is at it should be, but then by killing all of the sappers the main force can no longer advance, and so will just sit there until the siege times out. Sieges can last for a good portion of a year.

I've suggested this elsewhere, but why not allow goblins to jam traps with their equipement/weapon, in essence they would fight the trap and be killed if it didn't jam.