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[Calhoun]

Except

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Dr.Mossman

Isn't really a traitor, she gives assistance to both parties at first, and then it seems as if she sides with the resistance, there is no hard evidence to the fact that she is actually working with the combine.

It's definitely up for debate, but as the episodes show, it seems as if she is on Gordon's side.

[3]

In the game, I don't feel immersion break because, Oh my god, I'm not shooting these people who are my friends.

You're still thinking far too narrowly here... the FPS genre is a terrible example to use, since pretty much the only thing you can do is shoot things or not shoot things, so you immediately assume that I am talking about shooting or not shooting things. Try to take my argument out of the context of an FPS.

An exaggerated synopsis of what it basically all boils down to: "the player does whatever actions, something happens to the player in a segment which is (mostly) non-interactive which has very little relevance to whatever actions, the player does whatever actions, something happens to the player in a non-interactive segment which has very little relevance to whatever actions...". Cue cut-scene/gameplay dissonance. And I've already said that HL2 itself isn't a great example for this sort of thing.

[Calhoun]

In the game, I don't feel immersion break because, Oh my god, I'm not shooting these people who are my friends.

You're still thinking far too narrowly here... the FPS genre is a terrible example to use, since pretty much the only thing you can do is shoot things or not shoot things, so you immediately assume that I am talking about shooting or not shooting things. Try to take my argument out of the context of an FPS.

An exaggerated synopsis of what it basically all boils down to "the player does whatever actions, something happens to the player in a segment which is (mostly) non-interactive which has very little relevance to whatever actions, the player does whatever actions, something happens to the player in a non-interactive segment which has very little relevance to whatever actions...". Cue cut-scene/gameplay dissonance. And I've already said that HL2 itself isn't a great example for this sort of thing.

So then why are you choosing to use Half-Life 2 to argue that this is a horrible method of story telling?

As for the non-interactiveness, you do do things in the scenes, nothing huge, but enough to make you a part of it, in the lab, you pull the switch, fix the plug, and go into the teleporter(Apparently Teleporter isn't a word, says my spell-check), in the original you flip the lever for the Anti-mass spectrometer. You aren't talking, obviously, but for me, having to hear someone else's voice come out of your mouth, in that perspective, would kill immersion more. It's not perfect, and while I'd hope that in the future, I could as my speak into a mic and have the characters respond, that's a long way off.

Everything in those scripted events does have a bearing on your gameplay, at least in HL2. It gives you reasons for you to be doing the things you are doing, shooting the dudes you are shooting, and being where you are.

[Supermikhail]

Crap, would you consider doing it in a different thread? It's too interesting and important to me to go down in an off-topic discussion.

[Shadowlord]

What would be nice would be if they would have let you grab that headcrab. Apparently Gordon is terrified of "the grappling rules" and refuses to even contemplate hand-to-hand combat.

[3]

So then why are you choosing to use Half-Life 2 to argue that this is a horrible method of story telling?

I wasn't. I asked if you thought the cut-scene-NPC-interaction-bits were applicable as gameplay, you said yes, and I disagreed. I was necessitated to use an example of how there is similarity between HL2's scenes and traditional cut-scenes as part of one of my posts, you backed up and focussed on my most recent post (as pretty much everyone does), and things went from there.

And I do appreciate that HL2's sequences are a marginal improvement over the average cut-scene, it's just that the concept could be taken a lot further, but very few people have decided to made that leap yet.

[Shadowlord]

There are rather a few games that have actual dialog trees in them, rather than having characters just talk at you...

[Calhoun]

Yeah, I said it was, IN the context of the Half-Life saga. I can't think of any other game that does it LIKE them. There are things similar, but not as good. This thread IS about Half-Life, So I was talking about Half-Life. Not any other games.

[3]

I keep trying to close this...

And when did I say anything about other games?

[Calhoun]

You, in your last post.

I asked if you thought the cut-scene-NPC-interaction-bits were applicable as gameplay, you said yes, and I disagreed.

I was saying that they were, in the context of Half-Life. I got the impression that you meant it (From your last post) in games in general.

[JoshBrickstien]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'll let you all keep debating if you see fit. For my two cents...
I don't believe achievements take away gameplay at all. I mean, it's not like I'm trying to get all of the achievements on my first go through the game... Anyway.

I've always viewed HL2 as more of a FPS Puzzler. Not strictly FPS, because, really, what strictly FPS game has you shifting blocks from one side of a wooden board to the other to gain access to a new area.

As for the breaks in activity for "cut scenes" It's to address a problem VALVe calls "Combat fatigue." The same for Puzzle fatigue. They need these scenes to prevent players from "burning out" from repetitive gameplay. ex: Shoot headcrab, solve puzzle. Shoot combine, solve puzzle, shoot antlion, solve puzzle. ect. The talking scenes break it up so it's not simply two or three gameplay types.

That's my two cents.
In other news, I got the "Zombie Chopper," "Keep off the sand," and "Submissive" Achievements since my last post here. Next up, Hack attack, then, the groan-tacular Lambda locator.

[Calhoun]

Sorry about the whole derail thing!

Honestly, It really depends on how achievments are done. If you just do something that's a part of normal gameplay, like getting to a certain point, It's not really an achievment is it? Every other player who finishes the game is going to do that exact same thing.

However, if it's something like the one where you carry the Gnome all the way through EP2, that is something to be proud of, that's something that's not easy to do. I also like that (On the PC anyways) Steam Achievements have no point value. You just have them or you don't so theres less "Hurr, Durr, I have more Gamerscore n00bz."

[Kagus]

There's also "The One Free Bullet" from HL2:EP1, where you shoot one single bullet in the entire course of the game.

Rather silly, but also one of those achievements that shows you have an incredibly awesome lack of life.

[Ioric Kittencuddler]

I never said that they detract from gameplay.  I said that it screws up the atmosphere of playing through a game for the first time when a little box keeps popping up on your screen saying "Congratulations, you've unlocked such and such achievement."

Achievements are just an artificial way to add more gameplay to the game with minimal actual effort, except when they actually do put effort into it by adding stupid things that are only there specifically for an achievement.  That isn't better.