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Author Topic: More Idea Discussions  (Read 1381 times)

Kagus

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More Idea Discussions
« on: August 13, 2010, 03:12:43 pm »

Hello and welcome again to yet another topic about games I think I'd like to see.  I do realize that they're almost certainly not going to go anywhere, but I just like talking about game ideas and I like to see how other people react to the concept.

Today I've got two things on my mind...  One that was born a long time ago due to a pet peeve, and another more recent one that came about from watching Zero Punctuation.


The first one, which has indeed been running around in my head for quite some time, would unfortunately require a fairly powerful AI.  The idea, essentially, is that you are one of the crew/staff members on a spacestation/facility.  The area is locked down, and somewhere else there's a hive of "things".  I haven't decided whether these should be aliens, mutants, or biological constructs, but the point is that you really shouldn't care.  They're growing in number and power, and they don't like you very much.

So far this sounds like Natural Selection or Gloom, but there are a couple quirks.  First of all, the original idea was for singleplayer only.  I'm sure multiplayer could be figured out,  but let's just treat it as singleplayer for the moment.  Second, and most importantly, nearly everything is randomized.

The station is composed of a number of compartments, and is randomly designed and constructed every time.  Also, the starting points for both the humans and the aliens (for simplicity's sake, I'll call them aliens) would be selected at random.  You may start off with most everyone sitting smack dab in the security station, or you may begin the game settled inside a barricaded galley.  The aliens might also wind up in the botanical garden, which isn't much use for you but contains all sorts of yummy biostuffs for the aliens to grow off of.  You may even be foully unlucky and have the aliens planted in an important location like the power hub or the security station.


The game starts with you and and a number of survivors trying to survive.  It would be a first person shooter, but you should have a number of generic voice commands ("yes", "no", "look out", "follow me") that would allow you to boss around people who wanted to be bossed.  From there you would attempt to arm yourselves, maintain/protect/restore lighting and life support, locate the source of the alien incursion, rescue other survivors and so on.  Meanwhile, the aliens would be sending out workers to develop a sort of anthill colony, fueled by edible organic tidbits, including survivors.

Due to the randomness of the game, every experience would be different.  You could either be incredibly unlucky, or you could have everything going for you from the start.  The point would be that you'd never know exactly when the aliens would "make contact" or where they'd "contact" from.  As such, being able to know about and manipulate the environment (doors, vents, so forth) would become crucial, and you'd always have to be on your toes for fear of something nasty popping out of the woodwork. 

The pet peeve was actually the fact that a lot of games will use scripted events or environmental sounds in order to simulate critters moving around and increase tension.  However, after a while you realized that they were just disembodied sounds and were completely harmless, so you ignored them.  I wanted a game where no shortcuts were taken, so if you heard something, you damned well knew it was there.



The other idea is far more recent, a few days at most.  The basic gameplay was essentially just a puzzle/action/"platformer" based around physics and swinging.  You'd play as a character with the ability to swing via really long arms (the current take on this is a robot with chain-arms).  The swinging would have to be accessible enough that it would be fun and not-too-difficult, but with enough physics support so that you could actually factor in momentum and get real swings out of it.  Also, having the rope/chain/limb bend around objects instead of clipping straight through would be fun.

I actually started thinking about this as a console game.  Left trigger would shoot/retract the left arm, and the right trigger would do the same for the right arm.  With that, you could do a back-and-forth swing to move around, or you could latch both arms on to the same object for more oomph.  You'd also have buttons to retract or let out the chains, so you could launch yourself by pulling quickly toward an objects, or you could move heavy objects by latching one arm into the ground and the other arm into the object.  As you pulled, you would be stopped from moving by the "anchor" arm.

With this you could have swinging segments, thing-moving segments, and the ability to latch on to moving objects for fun and profit.  Two things that came to mind were snagging a plane-thingy that was flying past, and also hitching on to the back of a truck and getting swung about as a kind of dry waterskiing.

I know there are a lot of games with swinging/hookshot arms in them, but I don't know how many actually have the core gameplay based off of it.  At least not with the kind of freedom and weirdness that actual physics would provide.

It'd basically be the fun bits of Spiderman and Bionic commando mixed in with some Gmod.  I dunno, it sounded good at the time.


I would really like to have some thoughts and comments on these.  They're not particularly polished ideas, and I certainly don't expect them to go anywhere (although the first idea may wind up as a roguelike or whatnot), but I would like to see what other people might expect or want to get out of them.

Sowelu

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Re: More Idea Discussions
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2010, 10:03:09 pm »

I seriously adore the first game idea.  I might be predisposed to it just because you referenced Gloom though.

I think it would be ideal if it came with a difficulty slider.  There was an old old first-person survival game (Wilderness: A Survival Adventure I think it was), where you could pick a difficulty for trying to survive your plane crash...and you didn't know ahead of time what gear it would give you.  Do you wind up high above the snowline with no food whatsoever?  Do you end up with no warm clothes at the start of a blizzard?  Is it going to be so cloudy for the next month, that you have no hope of using the sun for direction?

But, either way, I utterly adore the idea...mostly.  See, I'm very worried about your own team's AI.  I don't know how well I'd trust them...just about as far as I could throw them, like walking turrets, basically.  I could see this being cooperative (Alien Swarm...heh).

It might be nice if the aliens got a point-buy for their abilities.  CAN they fit through the vents?  Do you know?  Can they turn invisible?  Maybe you won't find out until they start sending out that semi-randomly-generated unit two thirds of the way through.  Is that a face-hugger or are you just seeing things?  What kind of critter makes that noise--you don't know until you see it, but it might be on the other side of that wall...or in the vents...or standing right next to you.  THAT'S what fear is...it's the not KNOWING.
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Zai

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Re: More Idea Discussions
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2010, 12:33:59 am »

Your second idea is pretty generic, though it does sound like it could be fun.

I also like your first idea. It sounds like, if done correctly, it could be extremely addicting, especially if the aliens used Sowelu's pointbuy system. Expanding on that, I think it would be nice if points were awarded to the aliens based on your progress instead of theirs, kind of like the AI Progress in AI War, with each alien you kill giving them points and them getting points as time passes. It would also be nice if the aliens got extra points for every specified length of time in which no humans (bots or player) encountered any aliens, or at least forced the aliens to more actively seek out humans.

So that would need some great AI
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Kagus

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Re: More Idea Discussions
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2010, 01:12:03 am »

I realize that the second idea isn't exactly innovative, but the main focus was to get something that's good solid fun.  And it is at least slightly different, due to the fact that the focus would really be on the versatility and maneuverability afforded by that kind of equipment, plus physics (and physics make everything buggier/better).


As for the first idea...  I'm not really sure I agree with an alien point system, or at least not in the examples provided.  The idea was to have more of a simulation than any sort of balanced or even halfway "fair" gameplay...  After all, half of the bloody thing is already based in randomized placement, which in itself almost eradicates any kind of attempt at real balancing.  Basically, aliens would grow more numerous and would produce more advanced genetic strains depending on how much food they're getting.  If they get it from packs of survivors, from animal test subjects in the lab, from the kitchen stores, from 'recycled' alien corpses, from the botanical garden...  It all basically results in your being in deeper shit than you were earlier.

So while you will in most cases be in trouble for letting the aliens grow, it also presents the opportunity to "starve" the aliens by killing off some of them and then disposing of the corpses in an incinerator or something.  If that's not possible, just stack them somewhere safe.  Eventually, the aliens will run out of energy and will be incapable of fighting back effectively.  Unless, of course, the blade of attrition is two-sided and you've managed to run out of whatever munitions were supplied by the security stations you've raided.

I just thought of that on the spot now though, so the idea should be taken with a few grains of salt.


A difficulty slider I can fully agree with...  I have no idea how it would be effectively incorporated, but I do think it's a good idea.  But I do view this as kind of a "simulation you can play" rather than a real "game", so I don't really know how a point-buy system would work into that.  Maybe I'm just associating the term with something else.

The AI is a very big concern though.  I've found that a number of my game ideas either rely heavily on or are completely based around having a powerful and complex AI.  Unfortunately, we're still in the "Artificial Stupidity" era, so the idea of an AI that could stand up to these requirements is quite far off.  A very valid point that I have difficulty factoring in when brainstorming...


I actually hadn't even considered procedurally generated aliens...  Thinking about it now, I don't see why it shouldn't be included.  It fits in just fine with all the other generation going on, and it would indeed add yet another layer of uncertainty and fear to the process, and again help to make each round a unique experience.  Well caught, I like it.

Kagus

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Re: More Idea Discussions
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2010, 02:50:15 am »

Alright...  Not quite third page, but it was getting there.  This is one crowded section...

One thing about the first idea...  The concept of having context-sensitive generic responses mapped to keys has been fiddling around in my head for some time.  The original game idea to play host to that had a fairly interesting setting (if I may say so myself), but primarily was supposed to be manipulated by your newfound abilities of conversation!  No longer the silent protagonist (or speech-ranting chatterbox, an equally disturbing cliche), you would be capable of interacting with pretty much everybody through the use of simple speech items.  They would be shaped and altered in tone according to the situation, but would maintain the same meaning throughout.  By using these, you could carry basic conversations with people and respond to questions on your own without having to have a pre-scripted dialog event.

It would, of course, also lend itself to seriously pissing off the NPCs.  You could cry wolf until they no longer believed you and even got irritated, and a very lofty goal was to actually interrupt people while they were talking, eventually getting so far as to seriously piss them off by acting like a complete doofus.

Unfortunately, that would require some pretty snazzy tweaking of voice files in order to cut something off mid-sentence, let alone start in on the middle of one without making it sound funky.

Pandarsenic

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Re: More Idea Discussions
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2010, 03:45:50 am »

I think that might be more suited to DF-style overlord-who-might-be-ignored controls than FPS controls.

I would play it.
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Kagus

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Re: More Idea Discussions
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2010, 05:21:22 pm »

Not really sure I follow your reasoning behind that...  Would you just shout at your minions and hope they do something?  The main point of the generic command system would be to allow a single character to partake in dynamic conversations, something pretty much all FPS games are incapable of (all RTS games for that matter too...  Maybe you are on to something).

Still though, I'm not really sure I follow.  Would you mind detailing your opinion a bit more?



On another slant, let's see how this premise jives with those who bother:  I've been curious about the possibility of having some sort of game based around a bastardization of the wendigo myths.

The storyline is basically that you were a member of some ill-fated hiking/exploration/whatever trip that ended up resorting to cannibalism.  Eventually the survivors of the party were rescued, but the secret of your diets is never revealed to the public.  As such, you're all given a small deal of media attention and a warm welcome back into society.

However, there's a problem.  Committing the act of cannibalism has left you all changed, significantly so.  Regardless of how much food or drink or drugs or whatever the survivors take, there remains one underlying craving...  The hunger for human flesh.

Now you face a decision.  Fighting the urges results in nasty side effects, not the least of which being strong hallucinations where you are hunted down by the shades of those you've consumed, resulting in a constant fight to preserve your sanity and, hopefully, find a cure.

Succumbing to the urges and devouring more people will send you deeper into the disease, but will also grant you superhuman physiology for absolutely no good reason (bear with me).  However, although you become stronger and more capable of hunting down 'prey' and sating your needs, the repercussions for withdrawal become increasingly dire as the hallucinations also become stronger.  Eventually, you will trapped by the very power that makes you stronger, as you'll be running from the looming threat of violently powerful hallucinations and a total collapse into insanity.  Only the butchering of ever more victims will hold the darkness at bay.


The thing was intended to take place in a fairly urban environment.  You could track down "junk food" in alleys, or as your strength and agility increase you could clamber of walls, pry open windows, or just overpower people in the "wrong side of town" where they're unlikely to be missed.

The hunter style of play would result in greater abilities and opportunities for prey, but would also turn the city against the "serial killer" that was on the loose so you'd need to use your better abilities in order to get around the increasing difficulty.

The "going clean" path, however, isn't quite as "fleshed-out" (ouch...).  Basically the only image I have in my mind is walking through a crowd and then having a hallucination, so the people you're walking past suddenly appear to be the shades of those you've eaten.   You'd have to avoid shades until the hallucination wore off or you somehow managed to escape them (again, this is unknown territory.  Don't really know how to handle all this), and this would be compounded by the physical toll your mental state is taking on your body.  The eventual goal here would be to find someone who is capable of fabricating a cure for the disease, thus ridding you of the so-called "skeletons in your closet" permanently.  This needs some serious work before it becomes interesting beyond just being "the right thing to do".


The story would be pushed along primarily through interactions with the other survivors, each trying to deal with the effects differently.  Some commit suicide to end the nightmare, others become obese through eating other items, some put 2 and 2 together and seek out ways of ending the sickness, and still others embrace it fully and with gusto.


Comments?  This idea is quite shaky and could really use some input as to what would make it more full-bodied.

Ivefan

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Re: More Idea Discussions
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2010, 09:07:19 pm »

On the First Idea of yours;
I had similar thoughts after playing deep space.
A new game generates a random map as you said, then it designates the starting position and a starting group of survivors based on the area and its surroundings. Say that you start in the engineering bay, that would have a high chance of giving you a majority of engineers, but maybe there was a security station nearby so you also have a chance to get some security personel that might have had an errand in the engineering bay.

Though i get the impression that your concept is a tactical FPS where you try to get between points of interest to scavenge whatever you need. Personally I'd prefere trying to make a last bastion against the foe, while making raids for what you need and trying to find other survivours.
When issuing commands to others, I'd like to have a blueprint map of the nearby area pop up with a button, on which you issue commands.(a pc game, fuck consoles =P)
This gives you precision rather than giving them a general command and get them to stand on the wrong side of a cover, which happens too often in other games.

A difficulty slider could just be the evolution/development rate & restrictions of the foe or less survivours generated at start.
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Kagus

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Re: More Idea Discussions
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2010, 12:32:46 am »

I have to admit, Dead Space did play a certain part in the idea.  This would be more of what I think Dead Space should have been like, with a more freeform station that lets you go where you want to go, barring the odd spot of violent architectural mayhem.

And I personally wouldn't have described it as a tactical FPS, I'm all for the "last stand" kind of scenario where you're just a bunch of inferior lifeforms trying your damnedest to live in the face of the evil menace.  I just thought you should have some ability to lead/warn/communicate with a small number of other survivors, since running around on your own would, in general, be a death sentence.  The reason for having it be generic or whatnot would just be so that you could maintain the feeling of being one dude in a group, rather than a mobile command center.  Kinda keeps the immersion going, y'know? 

This would of course make it difficult to have precision commands, but that's perfectly fine with me.  The AI should be smart enough to figure out what the heck is going on, and you're not supposed to be this awesome squad leader or peculiarly silent physicist...  You're just someone who managed to be in absolutely the wrong place at absolutely the wrong time, and you're one wrong step away from being paté.