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[John Hopoate]

quote:Originally posted by Locus:
<STRONG>Wrestling is too cool to be marginalized.</STRONG>

Back in "Ye Olden Days", at least in the German speaking world, knife fighting and wrestling were part of the same school of martial training.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kampfringen

Read the article, it screams "Dwarf Fortress" all over it. Essentially it involved things like knocking the guy down, disarming him, breaking a joint or two and stabbing him through gaps in his armor.

[John Hopoate]

I hate to bump blatantly but what do people think about my idea of adding knives to wrestling?

[Capntastic]

You can wrestle with a weapon equipped, I don't see why there needs to be a re-organization of daggers into wrestling.

[Tamren]

quote:Originally posted by Capntastic:
<STRONG>You can wrestle with a weapon equipped, I don't see why there needs to be a re-organization of daggers into wrestling.</STRONG>

Wrong, you can grab people with a hand holding another object but you cant lock joins and break them, or gouge out eyes and such without an empty hand.

If daggers and other small weapons would be implemented the change would not be severe.

For example, i grab the ettins head with my right hand, my left hand has a dagger in it.

Instead of "gouging out eye with left hand" because i have the dagger the move becomes "Poke out eye with left hand" which is rather more deadly.

[ May 19, 2007: Message edited by: Tamren ]

[Funkadelic Jive Turkey]

I would think wrestling would eventually implement the weaponry you're using. Poking eyes out with daggers, but also shield bashing for knock-back would be cool. Called shots would be a nice option for all weapons.

What I'd like to see wrestling turn into is 2 "paper doll" images, one of your character and one of the enemy, and you could select a bodypart of yours and a bodypart of his\her\its and it would give you a listing of available moves. Kinda like the Fallout system with 2 dolls. This is probably way far-fetched for the forseeable future though.

[Capntastic]

I'd like to see aimed attacks with every weapon eventually.

[Bricktop]

I think it would be good if you could give your civilians sone sort of small weapon in Dwarf Mode because it would then give you some sort of protection for your civilians when the enemy do break through your defences.

The thing you do have to remember though is that you would have to make these daggers. While your first dwarves might be able to start with them others would need to have some made. This would use quite a few resources...

I also like the idea of Nobles having there own, more valuable small arms.

[Funkadelic Jive Turkey]

Nearly all nobles demand weapons and armor racks, implying that they were\are meant to bare weapons.

[JT]

If functionality was included to use daggers in wrestling combat, it would be remiss of Toady not to include that functionality for other weapons, albeit with larger penalties based on the size of the weapon.  For instance, if I grab a kobold from behind, I should be more than capable of replacing his lower spinal column with a short sword.  Likewise, if I manage to get someone down on the ground and straddle him, I could hold my longsword to his throat and be able to use my (hopefully armoured) hand to push on the back side of the blade and give him a second mouth.

[edit]Minor tweaking from "them"->"him", "their"->"his"; gender neutrality in this case would be awkward.[/edit]

[ May 26, 2007: Message edited by: JT ]

[Wang Commander]

quote:Originally posted by Funkadelic Jive Turkey:
<STRONG>I would think wrestling would eventually implement the weaponry you're using. Poking eyes out with daggers, but also shield bashing for knock-back would be cool. Called shots would be a nice option for all weapons.

What I'd like to see wrestling turn into is 2 "paper doll" images, one of your character and one of the enemy, and you could select a bodypart of yours and a bodypart of his\her\its and it would give you a listing of available moves. Kinda like the Fallout system with 2 dolls. This is probably way far-fetched for the forseeable future though.</STRONG>

Gearhead has ASCII paper dolls for showing damage levels, I don't see why Dwarf Fort couldn't use something like this:

code:

   @         o
>!=#=!<      @   .--+--.
   #   GoO#OoG      A
  ! !     /#\     [ ]
  = =     U U     | |
  n n     < >     . .
 Human    Dwarf     Elf

Except that it wouldn't work when wrestling non humans (and also it's just goofy as hell).  There has to be a better wrestling interface possible, though.

[ May 27, 2007: Message edited by: Wang Commander ]

[ May 27, 2007: Message edited by: Wang Commander ]

[JT]

That'd require some pretty significant coordinate data to be embedded into the creature files, and I dunno... I figure it's a waste, to be honest.  The existing vertically-aligned list of body parts allows you to -- at a glance -- see up to 22 body parts at once in Adventure Mode and see up to I-can't-remember-how-many,-but-it's-at-least-a-few body parts at once in Dwarf Mode.

As long as we can select body parts in a more efficient fashion, unlike the "every possible permutation" we currently have in the wrestling mode, the system should work fine.

[ May 28, 2007: Message edited by: JT ]

[Funkadelic Jive Turkey]

Yeah, that is kinda goofy. With the giant lists of body parts, making these from ASCII graphics would be very difficult. Throat, eyes...toes. Though I guess these can be in sub-menus of their respective larger appendage. Speaking of the Fallout comparison, with this attention to detail, be happy there is no groin option.  

JT is *basically* right, the idea behind my paper doll suggestion isn't in the graphics themselves; although that might be nice. The idea for me was for easy selection, and I think it doesn't get any better than being able to click practically on the body part, though the text line is still necessary so you're sure what you're clicking.

I wasn't even thinking for damage representation or anything of the sort, though cool if possible. I was just thinking to click on your adventurers body part, then on the part of the creature you want to interact with, and then get a very much narrowed list of options. (Grab, Lock, Cripple, Gouge, etc., depending on what is available.)

Currently this idea is what is commonly reffered ti as a pipe-dream.

[ May 31, 2007: Message edited by: Funkadelic Jive Turkey ]

[Exasperation]

Well, you could do the same thing with text menus instead of graphics, and it would be easier to navigate than the current menu system.  I for one would prefer to be dealing with 2 lists of 20 body parts each than one list of 400 body-part + body-part combinations.

[Funkadelic Jive Turkey]

Me too, it'd be a very good start I think.

[JT]

That's pretty obviously what the plan is going to be.  You don't really suppose Toady needs us to suggest something like that, do you? ;-)