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[Renault]

Its effective and the international community, specifically the US is too much of a pansy to do anything about it due to the unique circumstances and the carebear stance they've taken to the Jews because of their history of persecution and what-not.
[/quote]

Ah, the good old days, before NATO armed the Carebears with long-range missiles and F-15's.

This thread really has nowhere to go. Britain will fume a bit, Israel will ignore it, Arabs will be angry, and people online will continue to post their walls of self-righteous text about how right their opinion is. Its sort of doomed to derail.
Incidentally, Doomed to Derail sounds like a metal song.

[Jude]

Was just listening on NPR to how there's major strife between people in a liberal suburb of Tel Aviv and the Lubavitchers. I didn't know this but the Lubavitch crowd are viewed somewhat as scientologists, or at least according to this one guy.

Also? Some of the most ultra-orthodox sects actually oppose the state of Israel, because it's blasphemous to have a Jewish state before the Messiah comes.

What a place.

And yeah, nobody in Washington is ever going to grow the balls to tell Netanyahu (or the successions of twats like him who will follow him) that if they don't stop building settlements, their 3 billion dollars a year of US taxpayer money is going to get cut off, and so is any promise of the US helping them in the event of an Iranian nuke. I feel like that might actually have some effect, but I suppose American politicians are too scared of losing votes to do that.

[Grakelin]

I can't think of any idea worse than alienating your link into the region of the world you most like to fight wars against.

The US shouldn't have interfered to begin with. Muslims and Jews got along perfectly well for a very long time, even fighting against the Christians together during the Crusades. Then the West really needed somewhere to put all their Jews, so they messed everything up.

Calling for interference isn't really an idea conducive to bringing a people closer together. Especially since the problem is filled with legal things. What are they going to do, roll over the Gulf with tanks and demand everybody immediately turn to Communism?

[Renault]

The US shouldn't have interfered to begin with. Muslims and Jews got along perfectly well for a very long time, even fighting against the Christians together during the Crusades. Then the West really needed somewhere to put all their Jews, so they messed everything up.

What happened in the Dark Ages really doesn't have much bearing on modern politics, though. And it wasn't the US, it was the UK who created the state of Israel.
Not taking any sides or anything, just thought that should be cleared up.

[Grakelin]

What happened during the foundation of modern politics has every bearing on modern politics.

[Renault]

What happened during the foundation of modern politics has every bearing on modern politics.

True, except this has nothing to do with even the foundation of modern politics. The crusades fought an enemy that doesn't even exist anymore. To think that just because 600 years ago two groups worked together doesn't say anything about how they should or shouldnt work together today. Hell, the western culture we know didn't really exist back then.

[Funk]

Modern Israel was formed in the 1948 Arab–Israeli War.

[Jude]

I can't think of any idea worse than alienating your link into the region of the world you most like to fight wars against.

The US shouldn't have interfered to begin with. Muslims and Jews got along perfectly well for a very long time, even fighting against the Christians together during the Crusades. Then the West really needed somewhere to put all their Jews, so they messed everything up.

Calling for interference isn't really an idea conducive to bringing a people closer together. Especially since the problem is filled with legal things. What are they going to do, roll over the Gulf with tanks and demand everybody immediately turn to Communism?

Your post makes about 30% sense, but as far as I can tell it's addressed to me? If it is, then I'm not talking about US interfering, I'm talking about them NOT interfering, ceasing to give 3 billion dollars a year to Israel no questions asked and ceasing to protect them from punishment for their human rights abuses in the UN.

Israel may be as good as PR as they are bad at human rights, but the rest of the world basically agrees they're oppressive and awful.

[Grakelin]

The rest of the world does not believe that Israel is oppressive and awful. It is a complicated issue, and different groups have different perspectives on it. It is not a black and white issue. My housemate is a Greek Orthodox Christian Palestinian, and even she isn't entirely sure she wants to see Israel cast aside because that would give power to Hamas.

(She does, however, have a permanent, ingrained hatred of both Jews and Muslims)

[Zangi]

The rest of the world does not believe that Israel is oppressive and awful. It is a complicated issue, and different groups have different perspectives on it. It is not a black and white issue. My housemate is a Greek Orthodox Christian Palestinian, and even she isn't entirely sure she wants to see Israel cast aside because that would give power to Hamas.

(She does, however, have a permanent, ingrained hatred of both Jews and Muslims)

Yea, I'd have to agree with your housemate. 
You don't just cast Israel aside, they would eventually fuck things up so much, Israel would disappear on its own.  Its that or the neighbors will be the ones to do them in...  or both.

The US should lay the verbal smack down and the line.  If Israel gets out of line, they lose X aid or lose X benefit.
If Israel get overly uppity about it and continues to push it.... just drop alla good majority of the financial/economical aid/benefits. 
Keep the military/intelligence protection/cooperation... Though some of that intelligence cooperation could be withdrawn... without putting them in danger... if they still insist.  The US could still reveal/act upon said intelligence if deemed necessary.

[Jude]

The rest of the world does not believe that Israel is oppressive and awful.

Let me specify: they believe that the actions of Israel in the occupied West Bank and Gaza are oppressive and awful.

The country, and government, is otherwise quite a nice place in most ways, at least if you're Jewish and/or American.

It is a complicated issue, and different groups have different perspectives on it. It is not a black and white issue. My housemate is a Greek Orthodox Christian Palestinian, and even she isn't entirely sure she wants to see Israel cast aside because that would give power to Hamas.

Well duh. I'm not saying the entire world thinks Israel should be destroyed or whatever, much less wants Hamas in charge of anything at all. They DO generally agree that what Israel is doing in the WB and Gaza is illegal, immoral, and all around completely despicable. (and of course there are significant numbers in the US and Israel that think so too) That's why the US's many votes to protect Israel from censure is the only reason Israel hasnt' been held accountable by the UN or by international law.

@ Zangi: Basically right. It's kind of funny that the US is complaining about how Israel's latest settlement building jeopardizes US credibility on human rights and in relation to the peace process, as if they have any credibility whatsoever (see above on how they automatically vote to protect Israel from any accountability for its crimes). What SHOULD happen is that the US government tells the Israeli ruling coalition straight up: If you do not immediately withdraw from the West Bank, lift the siege on Gaza, begin pulling settlers and infrastructure out of the WB with a goal toward all of them being out in some set amount of time, allow the right of return for Palestinian refugees, including reparations for lost land and 60 years of exile, then we will stop sending you money, stop supporting you blindly, stop voting to protect you from all scrutiny, and just generally throw you to the wolves, period. (course in a perfect world we'd do the same for Saudi Arabia and all other evil regimes we're allied with, although we need Saudi Arabia in a way we dont' need Israel)

I feel like even Netanyahu would get his act together if that happened. Of course, his coalition is made up of a religious wacko party (Shas) and the Israeli equivalent of the KKK (Yisrael Beitenu) and just general right-wing assholes (Likud) so people would bitch and moan, but however much they talk about God being on their side, they know America is still their dad.

[Zangi]

Meeting with Netanyahu and Obama

+1 Obama
At least he is showing some sort of backbone.  (On this issue.)

"The general sense is that the prime minister was sorely humiliated by President Obama," Yaari said. "There is quite a degree of amazement to the way he was treated."

Well...  I do have to agree....  in a sense... >.> 
I guess the general consensus was that the US wouldn't do jack.

Still not enough... well, havn't seen those demands... but I'll keep my expectations low.

[Jude]

I find it easier to believe that Obama will tame the world's unicorns than that any US president would have the balls to tell Israel what the fuck is up. If this turns out to be that, I'll be overjoyed, but I'm not counting on it in any way whatsoever.

[Char13magne]

Hi guys!
Being Jewish, I have a slight bias towards Israel, and protect its image a little more than I should (seeing how crazy their more recent policies have been, but, hey, blame the government!)
I do think, however, that Israel is often misrepresented, which is often due to ignorance on the part of the community as a whole. Thoughts?

(Oh, and sorry in advanced if this is off-topic, but humor me for a while if you could )

                      Cheers!