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[Egarb]

My father brought up an interesting point about how lava works.  Even magma-proof mechanisms should not be capable of closing a floodgate with a magma flow running through it.  When the magma comes into contact with the floodgate assembly it would begin to cool because of the temperature difference and form a layer of obsidian, making it impossible to close.

There are two solutions to this problem.
1) A very fast magma flow, one that wouldn't have any time to cool (Very fast).
2) Instead of floodgates for magma, you would need some sort of large flat slab that could be dropped into and pulled out of the magma to stop the flow instead, where the mechanisms are above the lava and unacceptable to the obsidian clogging.

Just an interesting point really though, magma is already a pain to deal with sometimes.  But toady does seem to strive for realism (Or at least a decent quasi-realism).

[Magus]

I'm no expert on magma flow or thermodynamics, but really?  I'm not sure what kind of floodgates dwarves use (except that they don't impede anything when open), but here's what we know:

When closed, magma comes into contact with the floodgate itself, but not the mechanisms which open/close it.

When open, magma comes into contact with the mechanisms.

Now, your assertion is that the mechanisms alone have enough thermal mass that currently flowing magma will freeze around them in a way which produces sufficient obsidian that they will no longer be able to operate?  (Keeping in mind that mechanisms which can exert enough force to open/close the floodgate can probably power through a small layer of obsidian as well.)

The magma doesn't just need time to cool, the heat needs somewhere to go.  The doors and tunnel/channel walls are already heated to magma temperatures at the surfaces, so it's really just the mechanisms.  Once they're up to temperature, there won't be any further cooling, and the mechanisms themselves are in motion (opening the floodgate) when this process first starts, so there's also that to impede crystal formation.

My intuition is that it should be possible to design these things so they work, and we can assume dwarven ingenuity.  (Of course, I'd think you could design it so the mechanisms aren't ever exposed to the magma as well, but we can chalk that up to dwarven stupidity.)

[qwertyuiopas]

From a programming viewpoint, the raised floodgate could be an invisible item and the lowered ones a type of wall, and items probably do not get any heat transfer for junt touching the square.

[Capntastic]

The lowering floodgate wouldn't cool the lava fast enough to cause it to solidify, I'm thinking.   I mean, the differential between the floodgate's temperature and the molten lava is huge- but the molten lava is surrounded by more molten lava.

[Eagle of Fire]

The dropped floodgate would be a brilliant idea. Maybe a good way to make us to think about using power for floodgates. I really have no incentive to build up power generators ATM.

[axus]

Magma would realistically cool a lot sooner than it does now, and it wouldn't be possible to use the heat for smithing like the dwarves do.  The "connected" requirement for not cooling is enough, I think.  It's for our fun  

[Sean Mirrsen]

A sufficiently large (in this case, deep) continuous magma flow will not solidify. If you keep drawing magma from a pool, pump it round the block through channels, and pump it back into the pool, it's not going to solidify, even if you use several disconnected channels.

[sorbius]

Originally posted by Egarb:

2) Instead of floodgates for magma, you would need some sort of large flat slab that could be dropped into and pulled out of the magma to stop the flow instead, where the mechanisms are above the lava and unacceptable to the obsidian clogging.
_______________________________________________________________________________

A flood gate IS a slab of stone that is dropped into the flow....  That's why dwarves can't open them like doors.

[ December 24, 2007: Message edited by: sorbius ]

[Draco18s]

quote:Originally posted by sorbius:
<STRONG>A flood gate IS a slab of stone that is dropped into the flow....  That's why dwarves can't open them like doors.</STRONG>

Hm....something...like this... http://www.tc.gov.yk.ca/digitization/images_web/008136.jpg

[sorbius]

exactly....

[Egarb]

If the floodgate is in fact a large slab, the mechanisms should never melt as they never contact the magma.  Taking that little thing out of the game would make solve the realism issue to a reasonable extent too.

[sorbius]

quote:Originally posted by Egarb:
<STRONG>If the floodgate is in fact a large slab, the mechanisms should never melt as they never contact the magma.  Taking that little thing out of the game would make solve the realism issue to a reasonable extent too.</STRONG>

The mechanisms may not touch the lava directly(altough who knows.  we don't really know what the 'mechanisms' represent in a flood gate), but they certainly touch the flood gate and that will get as hot as the magma and when it's drawn back up it will melt the gears/pulleys/chains that opporate it.  The realism problem is that the flood gates don't melt if they are made of non fire resistant material.

[axus]

Right, on one hand, the floodgates might as well melt since they are useless without the mechanisms.  On the other hand, if coded wrong the magma would just eat through the mountain until it had spread itself thin.

[Draco18s]

quote:Originally posted by sorbius:
<STRONG>The realism problem is that the flood gates don't melt if they are made of non fire resistant material.</STRONG>

Magma doesn't burn/set on fire/eat through wooden constructed walls either.