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[Blacken]

Uhm. If this is some sort of poor troll intended to suggest that Visual Studio does any of the latter, you should really re-evaluate trying to talk about things you clearly have not used extensively.

I've used Visual Studio on and off for about a year, and I had my code just vanish at least thrice. It was mainly do to tabs and windows just randomly closing when I open the project, but it was still very annoying. I had no idea how to reopen them and wading through the countless menus, trying any option that sounds right was a chore.

Like DrPizza, I've been using it since VS97. That just doesn't happen. Sounds like user error to me.

[eerr]

Uhm. If this is some sort of poor troll intended to suggest that Visual Studio does any of the latter, you should really re-evaluate trying to talk about things you clearly have not used extensively.

I've used Visual Studio on and off for about a year, and I had my code just vanish at least thrice. It was mainly do to tabs and windows just randomly closing when I open the project, but it was still very annoying. I had no idea how to reopen them and wading through the countless menus, trying any option that sounds right was a chore.

and how many different workspaces have you used?

[ILikePie]

and how many different workspaces have you used?

Since I don't know what a workspace is, I'm guessing either one or none.

It's very likely to have been a user error, I may have closed something before closing the application. iirc, I started up my machine, opened vs, selected my current project, and the editor, the debug console thing, and the project browser (The thing with shows your classes all nicely organized in a tree on the right) were hidden. It took me a while to find the view option to bring each of them back.

[TheDarkJay]

Personally I use NetBeans for C++ and for Java. It has some of the best auto-complete I've found outside of Visual Studio, especially with larger code-bases when Eclipse tends to abandon all hope (in my experience). Also it's cross-platform and can work directly with a lot of revision control systems as well as Project Kenai.

As for this Visual Studio talk: Visual Studio's big flaw for me is the compiler. It's not very standards compliant, and lacking a lot of C++0x's nifty features which GCC wields with glee XD

[Normandy]

MSVC can be configured to use GCC, but it's deep magic that's beyond me.

[ILikePie]

I heard the same can be done with eclipse, you can point it to a compiler or debugger somehow, and it'll work the rest out on its own.

[Blacken]

As for this Visual Studio talk: Visual Studio's big flaw for me is the compiler. It's not very standards compliant

This has not been true for a very long time. MSVC6 and earlier were certainly problematic, but modern MSVC compilers are essentially compliant. Here is a rundown of noncompliant aspects of the compiler; if you are off in the weeds where that actually matters, there is a compelling argument that you are, indeed, doing it wrong. With those exceptions, MSVC is compliant with C++98 and the ISO/IEC 14882:2003 amendments.

And don't kid yourself: GCC is noncompliant in a number of those areas, too. For instance, GCC doesn't properly honor the 'export' keyword either--as far as I know only Comeau does it correctly. As far as I am aware, GCC doesn't even pretend to care about ISO/IEC 14882:2003.

So, you were saying?

lacking a lot of C++0x's nifty features which GCC wields with glee XD

What? This is totally wrong. Bam. Compare it with the GCC table, here. GCC's support clearly r0xx0rz j00r b0xx0rz and whatever other pseudocrap you want to spew! Oh, man, I'mma just bust out that thread-local storage and show MSVC who's boss..when...oh. Wait. GCC doesn't support that, when MSVC does. (It's a little gimpy, but it wins on actually having it.)

MSVC is arguably a better, more compliant compiler (and a compiler that emits more tightly optimized code, and a far better dev environment with far better documentation) on Win32 than anything using GCC, and if you are writing good, standard code, portability will not be a serious concern.

[eerr]

and how many different workspaces have you used?

Since I don't know what a workspace is, I'm guessing either one or none.

It's very likely to have been a user error, I may have closed something before closing the application. iirc, I started up my machine, opened vs, selected my current project, and the editor, the debug console thing, and the project browser (The thing with shows your classes all nicely organized in a tree on the right) were hidden. It took me a while to find the view option to bring each of them back.

I would bet money that you've used multiple workspaces without realizing it.

[TheDarkJay]

http://wiki.apache.org/stdcxx/C++0xCompilerSupport

They didn't list all of C++0x's features in that table you just posted. It's Variadic Templates that sells GCC for me. And default and deleting functions because explicitly denying the copy constructor just feels so much neater than simply making an empty one private. 2010 doesn't have initialiser lists either.

Though why it's took until version 4.6 of GCC for nullptr I don't know...

So, in short, Variadic Templates. Initialiser lists. B.A.M.

I'll admit I've not tried much of the template metaprogramming I experimented with a few years ago, so 2008 and 2010 may have cleaned up from 2005 in that respect. That's always been the grey area, it seems, for compilers.

Don't get me wrong, as soon as the features of C++0x I actually have found myself using are implemented in Visual Studio I'm more than happy enough to switch over to it. But I needs me some Variadic Templates first.

[timmeh]

... Well, I'm gone for two days and the discussion is already far over my head....   Anyways, thanks for all the input everyone.  Was at orientation today and yesterday, and it turns out it doesn't really matter, because they actually already had at least the three compilers I mentioned in my first post installed on all the CS lab computers, and probably a few other's that I didn't recognize from the icon (only got a quick glance at the desktop, while registering for classes).  Got to talk with the professor for my CS1101 class, and apparently the assignments can be turned in as project folders from pretty much anything installed on the lab computers, so long as he can compile/build it from his.

That said, I think I'll probably download NetBeans tomorrow and try it out, see which of the two I'm more comfortable with.  After switching to MSVC on some of Blacken's advice in some other post (don't think it was mine, but my memory isn't that great for that sort of thing) and absolutely loving it, I'm definitely going to give NetBeans a shot. 

Thanks again everyone for your time!