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Author Topic: Weird Hanging/Startup Problem  (Read 1661 times)

mdimasso

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Weird Hanging/Startup Problem
« on: April 09, 2010, 08:08:36 am »
Hi everyone.

I'm having a little issue with my PC these days. I'm using Windows XP SP3 (in dual boot with Ubuntu 9.10) and from time to time it will just hang up. Yesterday I was playing a game and the sound began to stutter, then the music was lost, and then the PC restarted itself.

Anyway, no matter how I restart the PC, it will go to the GRUB, and when I select Windows it will hang again at a black screen saying "Starting up..."

Because it is frozen, I restart again, and now it hangs at a black screen saying "GRUB".

And if I restart again, it may freeze either at the same place (GRUB) or even before the POST.

What I do is turn everything off and unplug the PSU for around 5 minutes (to eliminate every trace of electric power) and then turn it on again. And now, finally, even though it does it a bit slow sometimes, Windows finally boots up. It's not until the next time I restart that CKDSK kicks in (usually finding a lot of errors).

I'm used to keeping a tidy computer, defragging once a week and cleaning all unnecesary files and registry. I also use NOD32 antivirus protection and Spy-Bot. I try to keep every driver up to date. What do you thing is the problem?

I leave a DXDIAG just in case in the second post.
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mdimasso

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Re: Weird Hanging/Startup Problem
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2010, 08:10:50 am »
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: April 09, 2010, 10:43:21 am by mdimasso »
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mdimasso

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Re: Weird Hanging/Startup Problem
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2010, 08:11:24 am »
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: April 09, 2010, 10:42:31 am by mdimasso »
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SolarShado

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Re: Weird Hanging/Startup Problem
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2010, 10:14:46 am »
My instinct says bad RAM, but the locking-up-at-boot sounds really odd... does the same sort or lock-up problem happen in Linux? I assume after the cycle begins (when it starts locking during boot) it would affect Linux the same as XP, but has the problem ever started while booted into Linux?

Also, to fix it, do you have to unplug the PSU, or will simply leaving the machine shut down work?

EDIT: could you spoiler your DXDIAG output?
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mdimasso

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Re: Weird Hanging/Startup Problem
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2010, 10:49:24 am »
Yes, it affects Linux too, but it never occurred to me while working on it (I don't use it too much recently though)

Do you know a way to check the RAM for defective sectors? (or wathever they are called)

I'm not so sure right now about unplugging the PSU, I do it as a routine now... but if it happens again I'll leave it connected and see what happens after 10 minutes or so.

Thanks!

Any other input is appreciated!
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psyn

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Re: Weird Hanging/Startup Problem
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2010, 10:52:19 am »
I don't know why you would go with faulty memory. Increasingly recurring lockups: textbook overheating example. Crashing at POST excludes GPU and RAM, leaving CPU the culprit. I could explain how to fix it, but this is basic troubleshooting. Search Le Google.
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mdimasso

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Re: Weird Hanging/Startup Problem
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2010, 10:57:12 am »
The thing is I've been checking the system temperature for some time now. At first it was terribly high, like the CPU being at 40ºC while idle. Then I've updated the BIOS and it went down to 15ºC.

Right now my temps are: CPU 18ºC, System 38ºC, GPU 58ºC.
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psyn

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Re: Weird Hanging/Startup Problem
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2010, 11:48:02 am »
40C isn't hot for being air cooled. 58C (GPU) idle isn't either. Is that immediately after playing a video game?

memtest86+ is the basic memory test. Bad RAM still doesn't fit. Random and frequent application crashes would occur, not reproduced system lockup after taxing the computer. It could be unstable. Play a game, open the case, and feel one of the memory modules or heatsinks (hopefully when grounded). But again, you are more likely to see weird crashes with heavy throughput.
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mdimasso

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Re: Weird Hanging/Startup Problem
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2010, 04:51:17 pm »
The temperatures are for an idle state.

The problems occur randomly as far as I can see. For example, the first time it happenned I pressed the exit button for LCS (Liberty Crime Squad, an ASCII game from this site) and the computer shut down. Yesterday it occurred while the game (LEGO Batman :P) was calculating the score. But after I got the PC to restart, it froze on the desktop.
Those seem to be three very different situations in terms of hardware requirements, do they not?

I'll leave memtest86+ running at night to at least eliminate that.
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SolarShado

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Re: Weird Hanging/Startup Problem
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2010, 05:45:08 pm »
I'll admit RAM doesn't sounds very likely... I meant that way one of the first things that came to mind while reading the OP, but the hanging during POST does pretty well rule it out.

Overheating sounds like the best theory, but if it turns out that you have to keep the PSU unplugged for the problem to go away, I'd say it's time to replace it. Other wise the trick is going to be figuring out what's overheating.
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mdimasso

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Re: Weird Hanging/Startup Problem
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2010, 05:52:16 pm »
Just checked my temps while gaming, nothing strange:
CPU: 38ºC
System: 43ºC
GPU: 66ºC

I have yet to see what happens if I don't pull the plug. This is really weird.
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psyn

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Re: Weird Hanging/Startup Problem
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2010, 02:00:59 am »
I don't like playing the guessing game when I have these issues. Checking the insides is the first thing I do. Other components to feel for temperature (while grounded): MOSFETs, northbridge/southbridge, memory (all), HD, GPU (uncovered) chipsets. If it burns your finger there is a good chance it is too hot. Clogged/nonfunctioning fans. Also look for leaking/bulging capacitors. Leaking capacitors usually start weeks or months in advance of problems. I missed one once, and was lucky I lost only the motherboard. A multimeter is a good last resort before you start pulling components. If you're comfortable underclocking, then try lowering timings&voltages before taking stuff apart.

And next time this occurs, try toggling the power switch and booting back up immediately instead of waiting. Some PSUs quietly beep after several seconds to indicate no-current. I'd assume voltage/overclock/instability issue if it works after this, otherwise overheating in some area.
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Jookia

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Re: Weird Hanging/Startup Problem
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2010, 02:03:23 am »
Sounds like RAM or your CMOS battery is dying somehow.

For ram, run memtest, it's on a Linux live CD or something.
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mdimasso

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Re: Weird Hanging/Startup Problem
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2010, 10:03:15 am »
Well, memtest86+ showed no errors, so no RAM problems.

I'll try to keep testing for overheating and I will definitely have a look to the inside to see if anything seems to be broken. The thing is that this issue I'm having is very hard to reproduce, it's too random.

Thanks a lot everyone!
« Last Edit: April 10, 2010, 10:04:50 am by mdimasso »
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