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[kwon]

How about just making some islands before you flood your fort ?
Make them  2z levels high or something like that with some ramps around 'em and it should be possible to get some kind of "underwater" feeling.
And if you feel the need of expanding your dwarves' home, just get some screw pumps to pump the whole water into a cistern and add it once again; then just fill up the rest of your fort.

[Rumrusher]

I mean how Embark allows you to access areas that the game prevent you.
make a utility that allows you to work under water.

No, I understood what you meant. Embark Anywhere (to my knowledge) actually does let you embark underwater; your dwarves simply don't do anything, and if you haven't given them [SWIMS_INNATE] and [UNDERSWIM] they simply drown. So you can embark underwater, it's just kind of redundant to. I don't understand your usage of 'Embark Anywhere but for water' either - The reason EA is used to embark on mountains is that there is air in the mountains. There is no air underwater.

As for 'make a utility that allows you to work underwater,' you simply haven't been reading what I've been writing. I'll elaborate and emphasize.

Dwarves, when underwater, will do one of two things: If there is an exit, they will swim to it (if they can). If there is not an exit, they will just stand there forever until there is. A tile filled with 4/7 or more water is considered inaccessible even if a dwarf or other creature is within it; you cannot select underwater stone to build with, you cannot stockpile underwater objects, you cannot have your dwarves undertake underwater jobs, no matter how close the dwarves are to the job location. Water pathing is hardcoded to be 'if dry land = nearby, get on land;' there is no 'else' clause, dwarves just cannot do anything underwater.

So again I point you to this quote:

You can't.  Not accepting jobs that are underwater is hard-coded into the game.  There's nothing you can do to change that.

sorry but when I see hard coded I think it can be bypass by a rewrite and add on to the code. since you said they stop what they are doing and look for air. if there a util that can change the landscape, mess with creatures information, one that added in spells in a form of runes and the ability to steal and have more than one race working in a fort then I believe the modding community can work out a way to work in water. it just right now it's not possible. using raws to do this yeah no not going to happen.

[Schilcote]

I dunno... I think I could get an expandable underwater fortress by mining under the water (getting though the aquifers first), then pumping magma down under there. The only problem is keeping water out of the tunnel until the magma is ready... arghh...

If I really, really wanted to, I could use Tweak's tile editor to spawn bits of magma above the water. Then at least I'd have a dwarf-made island. Maybe, with multiple embarks, I could make some sort of long-distance magmaduct...

[NRN_R_Sumo1]

Does fire melt ice in DF?
if so, just put coal into a steel bin, then ignite the coal and it should apparently burn forever..
dump in various areas.

[Retro]

Yes, there are many ways to create land above water - my point was that having dwarves live/work within water or embark in a land-less environment is impossible. Notably, Silverwaters on the DFMA (bad internet connection, can't go grab the link but it's towards the top of the favourites list) has completed the underwater fortress as well as others, but you cannot make a fort within water. That's the point I'm stressing.

If I really, really wanted to, I could use Tweak's tile editor to spawn bits of magma above the water. Then at least I'd have a dwarf-made island.

I believe that the liquids generated with Tweak stay where they are as a 7/7 block regardless of wht's around them until interacted with in some way. Just a heads-up.

[Rumrusher]

Yes, there are many ways to create land above water - my point was that having dwarves live/work within water or embark in a land-less environment is impossible. Notably, Silverwaters on the DFMA (bad internet connection, can't go grab the link but it's towards the top of the favourites list) has completed the underwater fortress as well as others, but you cannot make a fort within water. That's the point I'm stressing.

If I really, really wanted to, I could use Tweak's tile editor to spawn bits of magma above the water. Then at least I'd have a dwarf-made island.

I believe that the liquids generated with Tweak stay where they are as a 7/7 block regardless of wht's around them until interacted with in some way. Just a heads-up.

you can get around that by using tweaks tile editor or "for each tile" and make a floating platform so your dwarves can build on next to the magma to activate it. also you could turn water into brook to make it stand-able.
you say impossible and I say we haven't thought up a way to do it yet.
by do it I mean hacking, adding a function that removes the code that adds the dwarf fear of water even if that would lead to dwarfs killing them selves every time a flood due to the lack of said fear.

[BigD145]

Without access to the source code, you're not going to do it.

[Retro]

you say impossible and I say we haven't thought up a way to do it yet.
by do it I mean hacking, adding a function that removes the code that adds the dwarf fear of water even if that would lead to dwarfs killing them selves every time a flood due to the lack of said fear.

I suppose hypothetically given enough time someone / multiple someones would chance upon working out some of the memory code for this - but it's most likely a lot more complicated than being in just one spot as it's heavily tied to pathfinding. So realistically, no, you never will - at least not for this version. I echo BigD.

[Vanigo]

Even if you did manage to make underwater stuff usable, I don't think dwarf AI can handle unrestricted three-dimensional movement. Last I heard, flying dwarves don't work right, and I don't see why swimming dwarves would work any better.

[NRN_R_Sumo1]

I remember hearing something involving steel lignite bins keeping water at bay by dropping them into the ocean on fire.

[Retro]

I remember hearing something involving steel lignite bins keeping water at bay by dropping them into the ocean on fire.

This drains the ocean almost instantly in-game and cripples your computer out-of-game. There's a good video of it on the DFMA somewhere; I think it was one of Kanddak's experiments. However the ocean will continue to pour in from the map edges, and this still doesn't solve the problem of deep water breaking pathfinding anyhow. It's just a (not so efficient) way to open up some dry land.